TripleThreat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:You trade him to a team under the cap

You ask for a pick[1st] or picks[2nd]

Shumpert is not worth a 1st round pick, nor likely a 2nd rounder, not in today's NBA marketplace, not under the current CBA conditions.

Why Shumpert MIGHT have been worth a 1st rounder to a team like OKC a few years ago, was that pre injury, you are looking at a young defensive stopper who players shooting guard ( it is very difficult to find good wings in the NBA) on a cost controlled rookie contract. For a team so nearly capped out and with few options to improve, and consider any surrendered pick that is their own ( and not another teams by trade via proxy) would likely be a low pick, in the late 20s. OKC would be gambling that Shumpert is better than what they could get with said future pick and could help them right now and for a FEW YEARS at a cost controlled level.

Now Shumpert is post injury. There are concerns if he will be able to fulfill his full potential. If you blow out your knee, you are never the same. How far from the same pre injury is the question. More questions, less value.

Shumpert is in a contract year. No more 2-3 season of cheap cost controlled labor. Now if you trade for him, you must make a long term decision on him very very quickly. It's not like you have 2-3 years like they did with Jeremy Lamb or Reggie Jackson to evaluate.

Shumpert has shown immaturity, despite the Knicks not doing him any favors with their management and development of him. On a veteran team, that's a red flag.

The OKC Thunder are still strong, but an injury or two ( Westbrook seems constantly hurt, Jackson becomes a contract question now, Ibaka is a big and bigs are always a risk to get injured from banging around in the post) could change the trajectory of what their potential pick might look like.

Phoenix got a first rounder for Gortat. Omer Asik moved for a first rounder. Spencer Hawes moved for a pair of 2nds. Evan Turner moved for 2nds. You can still get a first rounder in a trade, but odds are you need to be trading a big, a high value commodity. Teams are hoarding first rounders now because the current CBA incentivizes teams to build through the draft and seek young cost controlled labor who are outplaying said rookie contract.

Zen Master has openly pretty much tried to trade every single guy on the roster not named Melo. If he could have gotten a future first rounder or even a pair of 2nds for Shumpert, he would have traded him already.

The very same reason the Knicks will and should hesitate on an extension are the same core principles why other teams will hesitate to trade for him. Jackson and Fish have no choice but to let Shumpert play and put some distance between him and the stink of his feud with Woodson and his injury and his poor play last year and see if he can reassert some trade value. Even he does, we are looking at 2nd round picks, not a first rounder. The marketplace for NBA valuation on first round picks has changed.

Even off the poor yr, under no circumstances do I consider this guy worthless and a guy that's not good enough for the NBA. That's crazy.. Too many things still indicate value:

• His overall play leading up to last year -- Evident progress has been made. Evident development overall even with the off-year last season.
• His defense is above average and has the potential to be all-NBA. Even when his shot isn't falling, he can still make major contributions on this end of the floor. Can't say that about THJ really.
• His offensive game still has major potential. Hopefully he can really tighten up his drive & finish game.
• His 3-pt shooting is a real weapon -- the potential's there to be a 40% 3-pt shooter or better year after year. When he gets his feet set, it's money in the bank. One of the prettiest strokes in the game imo. Flawless mechanics...I still think he gets in and wins the 3-pt shootout on all-star weekend some day. Wouldn't surprise me if it all clicked for him eventually and he actually made the all-star team one yr too.
• He had a very good preseason last yr before it went south for some reason.
• He had that very good game @ the Nets where he appeared to regain some of his swagger.
• Had the EXCELLENT 3-game Texas swing where we won 2 of 3 including @ SA and a game we were in right up until the very end @ Houston. Without those standout performances by Shump, we go 0-3 on that swing.
• Had that EXCELLENT 3rd quarter @ Indy in the playoffs a couple of years ago where he shot us right back in the game. He played out of his mind during that stretch in a big spot.
• Appears to be 100% healthy and past any knee-related problems.

I can't understand anyone who thinks this dude's worthless...There's a lot of positives with Shumpert. Still on the flip side, he's got a lot more to prove. Overall consistency, more variety off the dribble, finishing at the rim better, etc.. Needs to rebound off last year's dissappointment. Knicks are handling this perfectly. No need to rush into paying this man right now. Phil's keeping his options open as he should. No need to lock him in yet. Let's see what kind of season he has, then we'll talk contract. As long as we offer him his QO, we remain in the diver's seat. When the time comes, we either retain him and pay him accordingly, S&T him for something or let him walk (we may very well need the cap room for a big move(s)). A lot depends on Iman and how well he plays. Wanna see the young fellas focused and ready to take the next step in a number of areas. Let's see..

TripleThreat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Shump was worth a 1st to OKC

The past season deadline

The Clippers package was Collison-Barnes-Bullock and 2 picks

For Shumpert and Felton

Is he worth a 1st to OKC now

Probably not but you never know

The way to drive up the price of a potential trade chip is to have TWO TEAMS interested in that player.

Sometimes you have TWO TEAMS truly interested. Sometimes you have only one team and a front office/PR department/player agent, will simply fabricate the rest, leak it to friendly source in the media and try to spin that others are interested when they are really not interested at all. ( How many times were the Yankees "rumored" to be interested in some player, only to try to create an artificial market to drive up the price? How many times, immediately after, were the Red Sox then rumored to be interested, thus trying to create a fabricated bidding war by two of MLB's biggest wallets)

Last year, the Knicks/Dolan/NY's front office released a lot of oddball trade rumors that had no real chance of happening in reality.

Spencer Hawes is a rotational big who can score. The best Philly could get out of him was two 2nd round picks.

Unless you are dealing with some very unique situations ( NY idiotically giving up THREE draft picks for Bargnani, Cleveland under marching orders to make the playoffs or else and a GM under the gun ( he got fired anyway), made a bad trade for Luol Deng, or a team like Sacremento, who makes head scratching move after move. Yes, if you get a situation or team like this, you might get a first round pick. But sadly the list of just plain stupid teams and really inept GMs is now quite small. There are no more Zekes and Dumars and McHales running the show out there anymore. Even Jordan cashed in his GM cap. Now you get guys like Rick Cho, Daryl Morey, Sam Presti, Rob Hennigan, RC Buford and the like. There just aren't as many dumb front offices out there to try to rape in a trade anymore.

In no way shape or form is Shumpert worth a first round pick today in trade. Not a chance.

I seriously doubt the Knicks could have truly extracted a first rounder out of OKC for Shumpert last year.

Sorry, open trade rumors, esp near the deadline, need to be taken with a grain of salt. There are too many competing interests ( player agents, endorsement brands, GMs trying to save their jobs, competing teams trying to block other trades just to block them, divisional rivalries, etc, etc ) to take every single trade rumor at face value.

Zen Master traded the ONLY Knick besides Melo who had any real trade value around the league. Sorry, but it's got to sink in with some of you. Other teams, esp the smarter and more successful teams, want nothing to do with the Knicks current roster.

I appreciate your revisions here

Although you're failing to marry

The revisions I mentioned which were

Factual and not rumor based

Phil has done nothing but sink Shump's value

By holding back on trading him

He's had at least 3 chances since arrival

I don't want to hear the talk of Philly and the likes

Look no further than a recent Keith Bogans trade

He's been traded twice in a week

Both times picks were sacrificed

How about using some recent revisions if we're looking at history

The only part I got wrong was Mullens was bait and not Bullock

The New York Knicks rejected the Oklahoma City Thunder's offer of their 2014 first round draft pick to acquire Iman Shumpert, according to sources.

The Knicks wanted an active player in return for Shumpert and deemed the guard more valuable than the late first round choice that the Thunder offered.

Doc Rivers was willing to trade Darren Collison, Byron Mullens, Matt Barnes and two second round picks to the Knicks for Shumpert, Raymond Felton and Beno Udrih, but Donald Sterling and others within the Los Angeles Clippers were hesitant to deal for an injured Shumpert.

Shumpert is expected to return on the trade market around the June draft.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is very smart. If people are overvaluing Shump when he has played like crap imagine what you get for him if they can get him playing well. If all else fails trade him at the deadline like Hawes or Evan Turner was traded. However, if he does play well trade him and get a 1st and a player/2nd rds.

Agree though if he plays like crap this season then the overvaluing is over.