dk7th wrote:knicks had no use for chandler since he he lacks the requisite skills to participate in the triangle-- and neither does dalembert for that matter.

the knicks went 6-14 with chandler out with a broken leg, many of the losses by double digits and three that were horrific blowouts... and that was the season right there.

no, the real reason to move chandler is crystal clear: it was to acquire calderon because jackson hated felton more than he didn't think much of chandler's skills in the triangle.

chandler had every right to take the knicks to task. he had the stones to call things as he sees them-- that is a sign of character and yet he seems to be getting derided for that. woodson and felton were abominations who have won nothing. meanwhile chandler is a champion and a defensive player of the year.

as chandler alluded to, this is all rumor and innuendo.

you know what isn't rumor and innuendo but damaging to a team?: announcing that you intend to explore free agency before the season begins.

to review: in spite of being a champion and leader chandler is not a triangle player, they had to get rid of felton and calderon was available, woodson and felton's ineptitude were colossal, and the blabbermouth franchise player undermined the team before the season began.

Can you explain why there is some small chatter

Knicks could look to move Calderon later on

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Crush ^Tyson was right with those comments

One of the few guys who actually were sick to their stomach about the season they had

His comments and play are two different discussions

Of course there is a contingent who want to steer the ship

In the direction of discontent with his play

Nevertheless this has nothing to do with the talk

That comes out from this organization about certain players

Once they're gone and rest assured Shumpert is next

I can already post what the narrative will be

If and once he's traded and trust he will have something to say

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea that was the real chemistry killer before the season even began

Ha, if you think last years abomination of a season was due to a player saying they were going to test free agency, you obviously didn't watch it!

things went south when chandler broke his leg. they went 6-14. plus he was the only leader they had left.

They went from winning 20% of their games to winning 30%. Of course Chandler only played in 5 games but the team looked bad right out of the gate. Those loses to Houston and Indy were really bad and were games where the team might have been able to get on the right track and start something good.

going 1-3 is 25% not 20% and too small a sample size to be taken seriously anyway. lets say he plays against charlotte and they win, that puts them at 40%. losing streaks like the ten-game one they experienced in the middle of going 6-14 is indicative of a lack of leadership. i said before the season there would be a worrisome leadership vacuum, and when tyson went down the leadership vacuum became apparent right away. the chaos ended up being worse than i had predicted.

other than chandler was there anyone who could lead the knicks? anyone who qualifies as their heart and/or soul?

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-chandler-fires-back-at-knicks-for-character-allegations/

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse **** to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

just read this so-called "article" and wow this kid schlosser is trash. is he actually getting paid for this? and by the way the phrase is "rein in" as in a horse's reins-- not reign. just pointless, gossipy garbage taking up space on the internet.

as to your assessment of coaching being a bunch of bs, i don't know if that's entirely true. i see coaching more as teaching and mentoring, and as the playoffs continue on and the competition more fierce, that teaching and mentoring becomes more important even as it morphs into something akin to truth-telling and leadership. you see it in the timeouts with popovich and rivers especially.

dk7th wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

The Knicks want to change up the culture in the team’s locker room, and by trading Chandler, Jackson and co. have sent a message that any chemistry issues needs to be dealt with internally. Expressing himself through the media wasn’t the best method of action for the big man. Such a strategy was considered a big problem with Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams. He finds a way to reign such players in, but in this case, parting ways happened to be the chosen course of action.

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/tyson-chandler-fires-back-at-knicks-for-character-allegations/

I think it's an illusion in the modern NBA to think that any coach has real "control" of their team.

I see all the time that people say a coach has "lost his team" and that " the players have tuned out" and the media narrative is that the coach must be incompetent and bad at his job. I also see fans talk about teams need a coach like Poppovich, that players "can respect" and can "lead men"

I think it's all a bunch of happy horse **** to be honest.

Poppovich was blessed to have two of his core stars to be born and learned the game overseas. Where the culture promoted team basketball. He was also blessed with two No 1 picks overall, both elite HOF big men, one from a military education background, with that discipline, the other to be a very humble player who is naturally team oriented.

A lot easier to win that way than to get stuck with a guy like Baron Davis ( got fat, only put in effort in contract years, would be a locker room jerk when he had a big contract, would rather be a celebrity "icon" like so many other of the young US born African American players in the league who can't be satisfied being an NBA star but also want to be rappers, movie actors, have their own clothing line, be a sports agent and hang out with other movie stars )

Phil Jackson was not regulating crap of anything. Jordan simply existed in a time before social media and a time before the media could destroy him. Jordan routinely mocked and disrespected his GM Jerry Krause. He and Pippen openly tortured and froze out Rodney McCray for the crime of not being Walter Davis. Jordan punched out Steve Kerr because Kerrs kid has the gall to be better in a one on one game than Jordans kid. Jordan openly bullied and tried to broker conflict with Bill Cartwright. Pippen, in classic form, refused to go back into a game because a last second play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc instead.

Nor did he stop the Lakers from infighting. Kobe Bryant and Shaq went after each other relentlessly in the press. His books basically state, nearly a decade apart in writing, that Kobe Bryant was virtually uncoachable and did essentially whatever he wanted and that Derek Fisher was the only thing that could reign him in and Fisher was probably the only thing keeping Kobe and Shaq from killing each other during the first three peat for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant did what he wanted. Never played defense, never passed the ball, violated the Triangle principles, froze out team mates, attacked other team mates in the press.

When has Jackson ever "reigned in" a player? He's a guy who is really good with the media, the media LOVES HIM because he's funny and gives them good quotes and plays the friendly coach card with them and wins because he has had some of the best players ever in the game. He also had good GMs in Krause and Jerry West and hands off owners who would write big checks and let him do what he wanted.

Chandler got moved IMHO because he was the only Knick this offseason with any trade value and his contract was nearly up and it was clear he wasn't coming back. Also the Knicks desperately need an infusion of youth, esp with a deep draft class this past off season.

IMHO Chandler is an example of sometimes its better to leave money on the table. He got a 20 million one year offer from Mark Cuban. He could have tried to repeat with Dallas that year and still got a nice payday contract after ward. Instead he went for the safe money and longer deal but on a clearly dysfunctional team that fit poorly together and where he would fit poorly with the other major core players on the roster. The league has seen Dirk, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili take less, way less, to stay on teams where they have a good fit and a good history, rather than venture out for more money and end up on teams with a bunch of other ass holes.

There's a saying, "The first time you hear a story, it's as good as it will ever get" Meaning every story has two sides and the truth usually is somewhere in the middle. Chandler could have done a lot of things better. Played harder, kept quiet in the press, not butted heads with Melo and CAA's rule of the team. On the flip side, the Knicks as a whole could have done a better job to create a better environment around Chandler and the rest of the team.

But let's not pretend Phil Jackson is regulating order like some cowboy in a crazed bandit filled Western. This is Melo's team, Melo has generally always gotten what he wanted and none of that has ever helped the Knicks to be contenders. This is Melo's team in so much as Chicago was Jordan's team and the Lakers were Kobes team.

just read this so-called "article" and wow this kid schlosser is trash. is he actually getting paid for this? and by the way the phrase is "rein in" as in a horse's reins-- not reign. just pointless, gossipy garbage taking up space on the internet.

as to your assessment of coaching being a bunch of bs, i don't know if that's entirely true. i see coaching more as teaching and mentoring, and as the playoffs continue on and the competition more fierce, that teaching and mentoring becomes more important even as it morphs into something akin to truth-telling and leadership. you see it in the timeouts with popovich and rivers especially.

this guy blew nuts in the playoffs and let hibbert make a lady out of him,

then he threw everyone under the bus.

it's one thing to under-perform, we're all human, but to throw the team under the bus, to give up on the team publicly, this is something without good excuse

Melo is Dolan's big ticket. Dolan has proven over the years he has no interest in rebuilding by drafting and developing his own stars. Despite other New York teams having success through the draft. In Dolan's mind it is not possible in New York

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

Honestly i dont think there is a single player on this team that Phil covets....Melo included. Keep in mind he wanted Melo to opt in basically as a "try and see", just like Chicago wanted to do.

It's gonna be some interesting developments if this experiment doesnt work out.

And yet agreed to sign him to a contract

At the opposite end of the light spectrum

Nevertheless it doesn't speak to his inability

To move the other divisive players(Shumpert another)

Maybe it's still too young to declare verdict

I do find it intriguing he moved A.S.A.P. on Ty and Felts

I think Ty asked to be moved at his exit interview

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson would have been correct just like Kobe and Shaq were. Tyson was not in the Knicks future plans for other reasons

Yeah like did Phil get West to trade Kobe

When Kobe was threatening to leave L.A.

While there once told Tex Winters

The Triangle Guru after Tex told Kobe he plays stupid

He went to the press and fired back telling Tex

You coach stupid

Phil is picking and choosing

Just like any other status quo exec

There couldn't have been any more divisive

Characters on this team than Melo, J.R., and Amare last year

Unfortunately Phil has proven he doesn't have the juice

To trade J.R. or Amar'e(I bet Masai would have)

And for some odd reason developed a creepy affinity for Melo

Honestly i dont think there is a single player on this team that Phil covets....Melo included. Keep in mind he wanted Melo to opt in basically as a "try and see", just like Chicago wanted to do.

It's gonna be some interesting developments if this experiment doesnt work out.

And yet agreed to sign him to a contract

At the opposite end of the light spectrum

Nevertheless it doesn't speak to his inability

To move the other divisive players(Shumpert another)

Maybe it's still too young to declare verdict

I do find it intriguing he moved A.S.A.P. on Ty and Felts

I think Ty asked to be moved at his exit interview

But imo he did leave a major hole at center....nobody on the roster even collectively replaces that.