earthmansurfer wrote:

Feels like it's been ages, and it seems a lot of you guys (I'm not from the US) have kinda moved on.
I was born on sept. 11th, so I won't, but I'm surprised the US population let this go without a fight.

The alternate press does a bad job filling in the dots to get the conclusion they want. For it to happen way too many people would have to have acted in concert with each other.

I know this sounds crass but we seem to value American lives more than others. What has been happening in Syria, Iraq and self destruction of Gaza (their leadership is killing off their people) is far greater than the Twin Tower tragedy.

Regarding the Conspiracy, the only thing we really get is bad youtubes with the same music and conclusions made from questions that don't have answers. It reeks of self importance and arrogant conclusions that some how the theorist supporters are superior because they know things we don't. It lacks credibility. Because of this I can't wrap my head around a full blown conspiracy by our government but I could "Believe" if I had a better picture of "Why" the sacrifice was made. If we did not mobilze and motivate could there have been worse consequences? ONe has to put yourself in that time and place with all the pieces and information available at that time.

Iraq rid themselves of all WOMD and wanted UN sanctions lifted so they can resume full oil production to export. That cashflow was considerable at a time Saddam was really starting to pound his chest that it was his destiny to destroy Israel. HE had previously "Scudded" Israel years before with larger rockets than what Hammas is using now. He had used mustard on his own people and if not nuclear "Dirty" rockets were feared as well. What are the implications to the world economy and perhaps millions of lives in both Israel, Iraq and the surrounding populations if that were to have happened? It would have taken a few years to put that all together and its a theory but very plausible. The world economy would have spiraled also if the oil supply if the middle east were to be radiated! Thats a big picture with lots of moving parts and speculation that can't be told in a 15 minute youtube rant and requires a bit of intellectual application of economics and what happens to people should such an event happen. I would think a lot of people die.

If so, and I mean no disrespect to imply a sacrifice could be justifiable for just economics but bad things happen when economies get very stressed. We had war in the former Yugslovia with thousands dying as well. If the Gov't took down the twin towers it was wrong but if it helped to motivate a country to prevent greater loss in other parts of the world I could see it and perhaps embrace it.

Im throwing out a theory only and one that most people can't wrap their heads around. We believe or want to believe our country is righteous so we don't go their. I do believe we might have done some awful things in our history but perhaps it was for the greater good. Thats a tough sell and its not my mission to do so.

That said, the nonsensical rants of the Rush Limbaughs, Glen Beck and Alex jones feeding the uneducated a line of self empowered theory of "World order" and "Them" based on some illuminati directives made from the devil himself is not credible in my mind.

I conclude that Im all over the place with what happened on 9-11 but can live with many unanswered questions because the lack of answers itself does not imply guilt.

As for killing OBL, the government clearly explained why this was done in secret and the body disposed at sea. It was a VERY smart move, to prevent any further benefit to Islamo-terrorists in their efforts.

Some may like to dabble in conspiracy theories, and that's fine. But please do it on another forum or let this shyte go.

Moonangie wrote:I lost my best friend on 9/11 and find this entire thread insulting to his memory. Deranged terrorists killed him. There is no conspiracy.

As for killing OBL, the government clearly explained why this was done in secret and the body disposed at sea. It was a VERY smart move, to prevent any further benefit to Islamo-terrorists in their efforts.

Some may like to dabble in conspiracy theories, and that's fine. But please do it on another forum or let this shyte go.

I lost a 2nd cousin and some family friends that were on the custodial staff there. Why should I be offended or "insulted" by what earthmansurfer is suggesting? Does that mean that we have to accept everything that the government said including nonsense about them "hating our freedom"?

Moonangie wrote:I lost my best friend on 9/11 and find this entire thread insulting to his memory. Deranged terrorists killed him. There is no conspiracy.

As for killing OBL, the government clearly explained why this was done in secret and the body disposed at sea. It was a VERY smart move, to prevent any further benefit to Islamo-terrorists in their efforts.

Some may like to dabble in conspiracy theories, and that's fine. But please do it on another forum or let this shyte go.

How is it insulting to question what happened when there are multiple holes in the story? I said nothing against those who died that day and the months that followed.
How is it insulting when the actual family members are upset with what the government did and has done regarding the (lack of an) investigation?
I understand that it is a sensitive subject as many lives were lost, 3,000 in America and around 1,000,000 in Iraq. Do you think the latter might be offended by doing a full investigation into something that basically "justified" a war for weapons of mass destruction that didn't even exist?
I'm not saying anything against those who lost their lives. I am questioning the official story about what happened as have most.
When we spend more money on where Bill Clinton put his D*** than on the greatest terror attack in our history, we have to check ourselves and go deeper.

And btw, the part that was left out about the OBL thing is that the Navy seal team who supposedly got him, died in a helicopter crash due to the leaking that they were involved in getting OBL? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/10/families-fallen-navy-seals-in-2011-attack-say-government-is-to-blame/ I mean you can't make this stuff up. Coincidence after coincidence.

How many countries warned us about 911? Why were there multiple drills of hijackings going on at the same time? Why were no fighter jets intercepting the planes for what, over 40 minutes, when in the prior year something like 100 fighter jets went up as precautions? How did a guy who barely could fly a Cessna plane do a maneuver that professional pilots say was all but impossible and hit the pentagon? http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070905_u_s__navy__top_gun__.htm There are so many why's that I find it really hard to believe that so many coincidences could have happened. A few yeah, but it is never ending.

There is nothing wrong with an impartial investigation, a neutral one, into what happened that day. That should make the victims families (all over the world) a bit more at peace. And put those behind bars who aided in the actions of that day and all that probably followed.

With much respect,
EMS

earthmansurfer wrote:

Moonangie wrote:I lost my best friend on 9/11 and find this entire thread insulting to his memory. Deranged terrorists killed him. There is no conspiracy.

As for killing OBL, the government clearly explained why this was done in secret and the body disposed at sea. It was a VERY smart move, to prevent any further benefit to Islamo-terrorists in their efforts.

Some may like to dabble in conspiracy theories, and that's fine. But please do it on another forum or let this shyte go.

How is it insulting to question what happened when there are multiple holes in the story? I said nothing against those who died that day and the months that followed.
How is it insulting when the actual family members are upset with what the government did and has done regarding the (lack of an) investigation?
I understand that it is a sensitive subject as many lives were lost, 3,000 in America and around 1,000,000 in Iraq. Do you think the latter might be offended by doing a full investigation into something that basically "justified" a war for weapons of mass destruction that didn't even exist?
I'm not saying anything against those who lost their lives. I am questioning the official story about what happened as have most.
When we spend more money on where Bill Clinton put his D*** than on the greatest terror attack in our history, we have to check ourselves and go deeper.

And btw, the part that was left out about the OBL thing is that the Navy seal team who supposedly got him, died in a helicopter crash due to the leaking that they were involved in getting OBL? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/10/families-fallen-navy-seals-in-2011-attack-say-government-is-to-blame/ I mean you can't make this stuff up. Coincidence after coincidence.

How many countries warned us about 911? Why were there multiple drills of hijackings going on at the same time? Why were no fighter jets intercepting the planes for what, over 40 minutes, when in the prior year something like 100 fighter jets went up as precautions? How did a guy who barely could fly a Cessna plane do a maneuver that professional pilots say was all but impossible and hit the pentagon? http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070905_u_s__navy__top_gun__.htm There are so many why's that I find it really hard to believe that so many coincidences could have happened. A few yeah, but it is never ending.

There is nothing wrong with an impartial investigation, a neutral one, into what happened that day. That should make the victims families (all over the world) a bit more at peace. And put those behind bars who aided in the actions of that day and all that probably followed.

With much respect,
EMS

I've always assumed that they didn't shoot down/ intercept the planes initially because it was too tough a decision to make- I don't blame them if they couldn't bring themselves to order it. I mean you can run hypothetical scenarios and have a plan in place, but could you as a person give the order?

I think after the first planes hit, they were kind of pressured even more to take down the remaining plane, and I've always thought they did shoot down one of them (reports at the time I remember being that the tail of one of the planes was found elsewhere, indicating it had been shot down). I think they then made up some other story for that plane to make it easier on the families (and avoid the public knowing that in an emergency, the government will sanction the killing of its own civilians), again I get that, but I'd still rather they were honest.

Of course I could be wrong- it was 13 years ago and I haven't read any conspiracy theories in that time, but that's always been what I assumed.

I always think its important to question things, especially as it's been used to usher in damaging legislation, strip back rights, diminish privacy, justify torture and conduct 2 damaging wars that made things worse and lead to many more people dying. though I also get why people who lost people close to them find it difficult or insulting.

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Moonangie wrote:I lost my best friend on 9/11 and find this entire thread insulting to his memory. Deranged terrorists killed him. There is no conspiracy.

As for killing OBL, the government clearly explained why this was done in secret and the body disposed at sea. It was a VERY smart move, to prevent any further benefit to Islamo-terrorists in their efforts.

Some may like to dabble in conspiracy theories, and that's fine. But please do it on another forum or let this shyte go.

How is it insulting to question what happened when there are multiple holes in the story? I said nothing against those who died that day and the months that followed.
How is it insulting when the actual family members are upset with what the government did and has done regarding the (lack of an) investigation?
I understand that it is a sensitive subject as many lives were lost, 3,000 in America and around 1,000,000 in Iraq. Do you think the latter might be offended by doing a full investigation into something that basically "justified" a war for weapons of mass destruction that didn't even exist?
I'm not saying anything against those who lost their lives. I am questioning the official story about what happened as have most.
When we spend more money on where Bill Clinton put his D*** than on the greatest terror attack in our history, we have to check ourselves and go deeper.

And btw, the part that was left out about the OBL thing is that the Navy seal team who supposedly got him, died in a helicopter crash due to the leaking that they were involved in getting OBL? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/10/families-fallen-navy-seals-in-2011-attack-say-government-is-to-blame/ I mean you can't make this stuff up. Coincidence after coincidence.

How many countries warned us about 911? Why were there multiple drills of hijackings going on at the same time? Why were no fighter jets intercepting the planes for what, over 40 minutes, when in the prior year something like 100 fighter jets went up as precautions? How did a guy who barely could fly a Cessna plane do a maneuver that professional pilots say was all but impossible and hit the pentagon? http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070905_u_s__navy__top_gun__.htm There are so many why's that I find it really hard to believe that so many coincidences could have happened. A few yeah, but it is never ending.

There is nothing wrong with an impartial investigation, a neutral one, into what happened that day. That should make the victims families (all over the world) a bit more at peace. And put those behind bars who aided in the actions of that day and all that probably followed.

With much respect,
EMS

I've always assumed that they didn't shoot down/ intercept the planes initially because it was too tough a decision to make- I don't blame them if they couldn't bring themselves to order it. I mean you can run hypothetical scenarios and have a plan in place, but could you as a person give the order?

I think after the first planes hit, they were kind of pressured even more to take down the remaining plane, and I've always thought they did shoot down one of them (reports at the time I remember being that the tail of one of the planes was found elsewhere, indicating it had been shot down). I think they then made up some other story for that plane to make it easier on the families (and avoid the public knowing that in an emergency, the government will sanction the killing of its own civilians), again I get that, but I'd still rather they were honest.

Of course I could be wrong- it was 13 years ago and I haven't read any conspiracy theories in that time, but that's always been what I assumed.

I always think its important to question things, especially as it's been used to usher in damaging legislation, strip back rights, diminish privacy, justify torture and conduct 2 damaging wars that made things worse and lead to many more people dying. though I also get why people who lost people close to them find it difficult or insulting.

There were no fighter jets near those planes. They were never sent up. I would never be a fighter jet pilot now (not as an adult, as an 18 year old, I almost did go in the army as a pilot.)
If a fighter jet pilot was trailing those planes, and saw them going right at the twin towers, would he shoot? Hell yeah, not a big decision there. And especially yeah after the first plane already hit. If the plane is just flying over forest, that would be tough (unless you saw planes already hit buildings and this one is going for the White House.)

I think the plane that "crashed" was indeed shot down. The debri field was just waaaaay too big to be a crash.
We need to separate "shooting down a civilian plane" from "sending up and tailing them".

I agree that after the planes hit, that they had to take down any others. Those military drills that were happening the same day, totally threw off the air traffic controllers, and probably that cascaded down. I'm just curious why they had 10 or so hijacking drills happening the same day as it was an oddly high number and took most planes away from the areas in question (but not all). I think that plane they shot down was headed towards the White House. The ramifications of that happening, oh boy...

At the very least, an investigation can start to change laws that allow for a bit too much privacy when it comes to matters of investigation (which can be used to cover things up). Saying "National Security" time and time again, when asking basic questions, is getting old.

EMS