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OT: 25 Greatest centers of all time
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Bonn1997
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9/2/2014  11:33 AM
gunsnewing wrote:^Nice lol

LOL!

AUTOADVERT
VDesai
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9/2/2014  1:28 PM
Ewing played on a far lesser team than Reed. I think Ewing could've been Bill Russell if he played on a team as stacked as Reed's. If he had all star perimeter players around him he could've been an eliminator on defense and scored with his athleticsm and in the low post when needed. From watching his old tape and Georgetown, you could see that his instincts/athleticsm were unreal. He was on another level defensively. That said without seeing everyone minute of Russell's peak the way that I watched Ewings, I can't comment on who was the better player. I just know one team had a bunch of hall of famers and Ewing only played with guys earned 1 or 2 all star appearances after emerging from complete obscurity.

Ewing had a great offensive game in the peak of his career. He was not "stretch 4" or whatever he was labeled as earlier on this thread. Ewing could hit the 18-20 footer with regularity and that was given to him by NBA centers who didn't want to step out to the perimeter. This made him a more dangerous offensive player. But Ewing primarily operated on the low block with his back to the basket and regularly went to the drop step in the lane, or used to the turnaround from 12 feet.

Given he was 90% of the Knicks offense for most of his career, that made it very difficult for him to focus the kind of energy on D needed to be a Bill Russell type. Still the guy averaged over 2 blocks per game every season of his career till his minutes declined. I think some posters on this board only maybe saw him after '97 or so when he became more of a jumpshooter than his early career. Later in his career his knee problems and other injuries zapped some of his ability and then we also finally added players like LJ, Houston and later Spree who had offensive ability, and then finally Camby who added size to pair with him.

The biggest flaw with Ewing's game is he was a bad ballhandler and he wasn't a great passer out of the post. He didn't pass of the double well and couldn't put the ball on the floor much. The best Center in NBA history at those two skills, who also had the best combo of power and athleticism, was clearly Shaquille O'Neal. I think outside of Jordan, Shaq was by far the most difficult player to guard in NBA history. Shaq couldn't step out and hit a J, but no one could keep up with his power and speed. And when you tried to double him, it was worse, because he found open 3 point shooters. He was really an unstoppable force before he broke down a bit physically.

JesseDark
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9/3/2014  1:45 AM
VDesai wrote:Ewing played on a far lesser team than Reed. I think Ewing could've been Bill Russell if he played on a team as stacked as Reed's. If he had all star perimeter players around him he could've been an eliminator on defense and scored with his athleticsm and in the low post when needed. From watching his old tape and Georgetown, you could see that his instincts/athleticsm were unreal. He was on another level defensively. That said without seeing everyone minute of Russell's peak the way that I watched Ewings, I can't comment on who was the better player. I just know one team had a bunch of hall of famers and Ewing only played with guys earned 1 or 2 all star appearances after emerging from complete obscurity.

Ewing had a great offensive game in the peak of his career. He was not "stretch 4" or whatever he was labeled as earlier on this thread. Ewing could hit the 18-20 footer with regularity and that was given to him by NBA centers who didn't want to step out to the perimeter. This made him a more dangerous offensive player. But Ewing primarily operated on the low block with his back to the basket and regularly went to the drop step in the lane, or used to the turnaround from 12 feet.

Given he was 90% of the Knicks offense for most of his career, that made it very difficult for him to focus the kind of energy on D needed to be a Bill Russell type. Still the guy averaged over 2 blocks per game every season of his career till his minutes declined. I think some posters on this board only maybe saw him after '97 or so when he became more of a jumpshooter than his early career. Later in his career his knee problems and other injuries zapped some of his ability and then we also finally added players like LJ, Houston and later Spree who had offensive ability, and then finally Camby who added size to pair with him.

The biggest flaw with Ewing's game is he was a bad ballhandler and he wasn't a great passer out of the post. He didn't pass of the double well and couldn't put the ball on the floor much. The best Center in NBA history at those two skills, who also had the best combo of power and athleticism, was clearly Shaquille O'Neal. I think outside of Jordan, Shaq was by far the most difficult player to guard in NBA history. Shaq couldn't step out and hit a J, but no one could keep up with his power and speed. And when you tried to double him, it was worse, because he found open 3 point shooters. He was really an unstoppable force before he broke down a bit physically.

Agreed. I was thought if Pat had an up and under move in his repertaire it would've improved his whole game in the areas he was defecient in.

Bring back dee-fense
EnySpree
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9/3/2014  9:26 AM
I agree with VD....good post actually.

JesseDark...Ewing did have a nice up and under move. I been watching the old games on msg all summer, so I was surprised at how dynamic Ewing was scoring the ball. I remember getting pissed at him at the time but in retrospect I was just a spoiled brat.

Problem with Ewing was he always just let the defense off the hook. Only guy he really went at was Alonzo mourning. Mourning was his bitch.

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Nalod
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9/3/2014  10:38 AM
If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

EnySpree
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9/3/2014  10:57 AM
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Boom

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VDesai
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9/4/2014  12:52 AM
Don Nelson was always a really curious hire for the Knicks, especially post Riley and the way the team was built.
Nalod
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9/4/2014  7:22 AM
VDesai wrote:Don Nelson was always a really curious hire for the Knicks, especially post Riley and the way the team was built.


The roster eventually moved oak for Camby and when Spree fell in our lap's we had JVG who was catering to slow ball but a roster built to run. If JVG does not go to finals and kick in an automatic 2 year extension for big money, he gets fired. Instead, Grunfeld had to go.

The team wanted to evolve and maybe there was a plan to move the seemingly grumpy Ewing. When he broke his wrist his trade value plummeted and that contract became a problem. The team moved on without him but had the wrong coach.

I liked JVG and thought he did a great job but maybe Nellie could have done better. In dallas Nellie never won a chip but he build a winning culture that eventually did with his son as the GM.

At the time I was not thrilled with Nellie being hired but in retrospect he COULD have been a great hire. We were going UPTEMPO but ewing would have no part of it.

jrodmc
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9/4/2014  8:36 AM
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Warrior's are proud people. Ewing was not going to sit second fiddle to Point Forward Anthony Mason. Nelson would have been a great hire, post-Ewing.
You don't sheehit on the face of your franchise for the sake of change. Knicks had to hire a name in the wake of the Rat Piley fax fiasco.

Only thing I hated about Ewing was that stupid penchant for setting useless picks 38 feet from the basket.

Nalod
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9/4/2014  11:32 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Warrior's are proud people. Ewing was not going to sit second fiddle to Point Forward Anthony Mason. Nelson would have been a great hire, post-Ewing.
You don't sheehit on the face of your franchise for the sake of change. Knicks had to hire a name in the wake of the Rat Piley fax fiasco.

Only thing I hated about Ewing was that stupid penchant for setting useless picks 38 feet from the basket.

They could pick and pop and he'd get a nice long look for a jumper.

I hated Mason BTW!!!!!! I did not like the Nellie hire at the time.
In hindsight we can see there was a window to pre emtively change the franchise and it would have required Moving Ewing or letting him walk.
He was the face of the franchise and wanted a big contract.
LIke I said, in hindsight.......

jrodmc
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9/4/2014  12:09 PM
Nalod wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Warrior's are proud people. Ewing was not going to sit second fiddle to Point Forward Anthony Mason. Nelson would have been a great hire, post-Ewing.
You don't sheehit on the face of your franchise for the sake of change. Knicks had to hire a name in the wake of the Rat Piley fax fiasco.

Only thing I hated about Ewing was that stupid penchant for setting useless picks 38 feet from the basket.

They could pick and pop and he'd get a nice long look for a jumper.

I hated Mason BTW!!!!!! I did not like the Nellie hire at the time.
In hindsight we can see there was a window to pre emtively change the franchise and it would have required Moving Ewing or letting him walk.
He was the face of the franchise and wanted a big contract.
LIke I said, in hindsight.......

Nalod, you'd only run the pick N pop from the halfcourt line with World B Free. Or Reggie Miller. Not with the best mid-range jump shooting center the Knicks ever had. (Although I never saw Bellamy's j)

I liked the Mase head-as-a-billboard thing. Classic NYC entertainment. I hated that funky little j, though. It was always embarrasing to watch.

Nalod
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9/4/2014  12:24 PM
JesseDark
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9/4/2014  5:24 PM
I was always amazed at Mase's ball handling ability. He handled like a pt guard rebounded like a power forward and shot free throws like a linebacker.
Bring back dee-fense
dk7th
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9/4/2014  5:32 PM
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Warrior's are proud people. Ewing was not going to sit second fiddle to Point Forward Anthony Mason. Nelson would have been a great hire, post-Ewing.
You don't sheehit on the face of your franchise for the sake of change. Knicks had to hire a name in the wake of the Rat Piley fax fiasco.

Only thing I hated about Ewing was that stupid penchant for setting useless picks 38 feet from the basket.


warriors are proud people

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
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9/6/2014  6:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/6/2014  6:08 AM
JesseDark wrote:I was always amazed at Mase's ball handling ability. He handled like a pt guard rebounded like a power forward and shot free throws like a linebacker.

Don't put linebackers down like that. I saw some of the Giant LB's shoot free throws at some charity events. Mase shot free throws more like a blind shot putter.

jrodmc
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9/6/2014  6:09 AM
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:If Ewing played on Boston in the 60's he'd be.........
If Ewing played on the 70's Knicks he'd be............
If Ewing's knees would have held better he'd be......

Well he didn't and he isn't. Its not his fault, its just how shyt is.

My only Knock agaisnt Him was he put himself (good business move for him) before the team in 96' when he threatend to bolt unless Nelson was canned and they slowed it up for him.
That was his moment to do a "Wilt" and become a defensive anchor and shot blocker as he did late in his career.

But he didn't and is considered the 11th best.

Warrior's are proud people. Ewing was not going to sit second fiddle to Point Forward Anthony Mason. Nelson would have been a great hire, post-Ewing.
You don't sheehit on the face of your franchise for the sake of change. Knicks had to hire a name in the wake of the Rat Piley fax fiasco.

Only thing I hated about Ewing was that stupid penchant for setting useless picks 38 feet from the basket.


warriors are proud people

Even more intellectual honesty.
Trolls are trolls.

Vmart
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9/6/2014  10:45 AM
I wonder how Ewing would have faired being on another team. The biggest flaw Ewing had was being drafted by the Knicks. Ewing carried a poorly run franchise for years. It wasn't until the tail end of his career that they got him some talent.
OT: 25 Greatest centers of all time

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