EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I really think we are better off going after Gasol, Millsap, Monroe etc than sacrificing the cap space and assets for Kobe. We have no idea what he has left and if he will stay healthy.

I agree to an extent.

This idea is a mid season type of thing. If Kobe is kobe where he's still big dropping numbers and if the Lakers suck...That's the only way this goes down.

I believe we would really have to suck as well for Phil to want to pull this type of sheehit move mid-season. On the upside, Kobe knows Triangle. Going for Kobe at this point in his career smells of Dolan more than Phil.

But if it does go down, then all Phil would have to accomplish in the next 4 years would be Lebron, KD and then draft that Sudanese Thon kid as your new Patrick Ewing in 2018 or so.

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Called this months ago when Phil got here. Lakers gave Kobe his money as a thanks knowing that they can trade him to a desperate contender. I think there's at least a 50/50 chance

You called what? A 50-50 chance? What contender has the kind of cap left to obsorb that? If Knicks are contending this year and Stat is not part of it, then perhaps.
But how many contending teams have 24mill tied in cap and a player NOT contributiong to that "contendership"?

Would Kobe really want to ride the coat tails at the trading deadline next season in his last two months of his Laker career to have a shot? And still they'd have to fit that monster contract in!

Perhaps Kobe after his Laker deal runs out plays one more season but he talked about playing in Italy (he still owns part of team there?) years ago. In my view his laker extension was a "thank you" and also a confirmation he will retire a Laker.

Of course, 50-50 chance I am wrong?

It really is a toss up kind of thing.

Kobe being a lifetime laker means something to him. So you can't take that for granted. Kobe is also a historian and a student. He understands what it would mean to win in nyc. He's played the rucker. He understands why Phil and Fisher are in nyc, too. So it's an interesting story that people will laugh at until it happens. But it's a huge toss up.

EnySpree wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Called this months ago when Phil got here. Lakers gave Kobe his money as a thanks knowing that they can trade him to a desperate contender. I think there's at least a 50/50 chance

You called what? A 50-50 chance? What contender has the kind of cap left to obsorb that? If Knicks are contending this year and Stat is not part of it, then perhaps.
But how many contending teams have 24mill tied in cap and a player NOT contributiong to that "contendership"?

Would Kobe really want to ride the coat tails at the trading deadline next season in his last two months of his Laker career to have a shot? And still they'd have to fit that monster contract in!

Perhaps Kobe after his Laker deal runs out plays one more season but he talked about playing in Italy (he still owns part of team there?) years ago. In my view his laker extension was a "thank you" and also a confirmation he will retire a Laker.

Of course, 50-50 chance I am wrong?

It really is a toss up kind of thing.

Kobe being a lifetime laker means something to him. So you can't take that for granted. Kobe is also a historian and a student. He understands what it would mean to win in nyc. He's played the rucker. He understands why Phil and Fisher are in nyc, too. So it's an interesting story that people will laugh at until it happens. But it's a huge toss up.

Phil understands math. Bring Kobe and no money for a big next year.
What Kobe understands about what PHISH is doing in NY would also understand that A front line of Bargs/Dalembart/Cole is not chamnpionship quality. what he understands in the following year those two leave and no money to replace them.

Oh wait, He played Rucker, Im sorry, then he is down for the "Mecca" which magically will enhance our bigs?

BRIGGS wrote:Wow bashing Kobe? the last time I looked he has 5 rings and has been to the finals 7 times. He only had one losing season w the Lakers when healthy and when he was they had a winning % above 65% on average. Kobe's last healthy year he was still better than Carmelo's best year ever at any age. The guy was loyal was a hard worker and a big big time winner in this league.

I could care less what kind of player that Kobe Bryant USED TO BE.

I care, for the sake of the Knicks, our beloved Knicks, what kind of player HE IS RIGHT NOW.

First, I still don't believe that Bryant would waive his no trade, go to New York, to a team that has no chance to contend for the next several years, uproot his family, and devalue the marketing aspect of being a lifelong Laker and chasing Jabbars scoring record in a Lakers uniform just because he has nostalgia about the NY area. The Lakers can't take that huge local TV deal and offer up Nick Young as their "headliner" player.

But let's say it could happen, in a bizarro universe where the unlikely is possible.

Bryant has historically been a VOLUME PLAYER. He needs minutes and needs shots. He has the career numbers he does because he's played a long time, didn't go to college, takes a lot of shots, was until now a player who had good durability health and got to the free throw line at a strong clip.

Bryant, at this stage, and I'd argue for a lot of his career, however was NOT AN EFFICIENT PLAYER. As much as some here hate Pringles, he wasn't wrong. Long two point shots are not efficient. Esp in the playoffs, where managing your possessions is so critical, having an effective three point shot spaces the floor, it opens up driving lines, it's an efficient use of your possession if you hit them at a high enough rate.

Kobe Bryant is not an elite three point shooter. And with his injury, it's questionable whether he still has the ability to create his own shot off the dribble anymore.

DOES HE MAKE THE PLAYERS AROUND HIM BETTER?

DOES HIS POSITIVES OUTWEIGH HIS NEGATIVES?

This should be something any prospective Knick needs to get wrung through before homers start to clamor to fit them for a NY jersey.

Kobe Bryant does not

1) Play defense. He's a lazy/non committed defender. He blows or ignores his assignments.
2) Play well off the ball. He is a ball dominant player. The kind of ball that Fisher and Jackson want to play is team ball, keep the ball moving, look for the open shot, take the high percentage opportunity. It's not a huge secret how the Spurs won and keep winning, they play elite team ball.
3) Do the little things to win. He doesn't set picks, he doesn't fight through screens, he doesn't concern himself with getting the entire offense in sync.
4) Have good shot selection. He will go one on four with a 15 foot off balance shot jack instead of passing to three open team mates. Which is demoralizing for any unit and team offense.
5) Restrain himself from using the media as a weapon to voice his petty criticisms of his coach and team and team mates. Do you think major free agents bypassed the Lakers just because of their roster? That's part of it, but who wants the headache of an aging Kobe Bryant yapping at you and choking up the offense while you are there?

Do you think it will help Early or Larkin or THJ to play as hard as they can on defense and team ball only to see Kobe Bryant blow his assignment to chase a steal attempt ( because he can get a stat for that) and then have his man blow by him for an easy layup and then have Mamba glare at the young player and point his finger and blame them for the bucket? That's the kind of player that Kobe Bryant is and has been.

Phil Jackson wrote two books, OVER A DECADE apart, in both he cites the SAME PROBLEMS with Kobe Bryant. That he's close to being totally uncoachable. Do you think people are lining up to coach the Lakers with a headcase like Mamba on the roster?

He has rings? Adam Morrison has TWO RINGS. You could count jewelry all day long and it doesn't mean it will help the Knicks. Isaiah Thomas has TWO RINGS, did that qualify him to be the best thing to ever happen to the Knicks?

Surround any NBA player with a frontline of Bynum ( when young and healthy), a prime Pau Gasol in his future HOF mode and Lamar Odom, a versatile PF/C who can run the 2nd offense and see how many games you win. Surround any player with Shaq in his prime, one of the most dominant big men in the game and a HOF player, and see how many games you win.

The Knicks already have one player who is seen by many as a ball stopper with poor shot selection and mediocre/lazy defense. Do you really want another with that kind of massive cap implication?

Could the Knicks use a Bryant who had an elite three point shot, put in max effort on defense, focused on good shot selection, worked on moving well off the ball, set picks, fought through screens, gave up shots to get the team offense flowing, give up his body to dive for loose balls, restrain himself in the public and in the press - Sure. But they can get that kind of player for a lot less. And likely a younger one who might have a better future ceiling ( relative to age, not talent) Instead of asking an overpaid dog to learn new tricks, how about just not buying an overpaid, over costly broken dog selfish dog with bad habits in the first place?

DOES HE MAKE THE PLAYERS AROUND HIM BETTER?

DOES HIS POSITIVES OUTWEIGH HIS NEGATIVES?

And Kobe Bryant has pulled no punches in trashing his team mates in the past. Do you really want Early to do well and then when Kobe feels he's not getting enough attention, to trash the young Knick with a nice future in the papers? In the rabid NY media?

Kobe Bryant is not going to be a Knick during his two year massive extension. He's just not. No 50/50, it's just not sensible for the Lakers marketing and it's not sensible for the Knicks to heal as a franchise and move towards building a strong foundation and a sustainable winner.

PS Yes, Envy, please go cry to the staff here about banning me. For doing crazy things like talking about the kind of player that Bryant is or is not, his strengths and weaknesses and how he might or might not help the Knicks without the homerrific beer goggles on. Sorry for my crazy talk about building through the draft, the critical importance of defending the rim and not chasing the flavor of the week, but building an actual long term foundation to revitalize this franchise. I know that sounds absolutely insane.

EnySpree wrote:

Nalod wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Called this months ago when Phil got here. Lakers gave Kobe his money as a thanks knowing that they can trade him to a desperate contender. I think there's at least a 50/50 chance

You called what? A 50-50 chance? What contender has the kind of cap left to obsorb that? If Knicks are contending this year and Stat is not part of it, then perhaps.
But how many contending teams have 24mill tied in cap and a player NOT contributiong to that "contendership"?

Would Kobe really want to ride the coat tails at the trading deadline next season in his last two months of his Laker career to have a shot? And still they'd have to fit that monster contract in!

Perhaps Kobe after his Laker deal runs out plays one more season but he talked about playing in Italy (he still owns part of team there?) years ago. In my view his laker extension was a "thank you" and also a confirmation he will retire a Laker.

Of course, 50-50 chance I am wrong?

It really is a toss up kind of thing.

Kobe being a lifetime laker means something to him. So you can't take that for granted. Kobe is also a historian and a student. He understands what it would mean to win in nyc. He's played the rucker. He understands why Phil and Fisher are in nyc, too. So it's an interesting story that people will laugh at until it happens. But it's a huge toss up.

Phil understands math. Bring Kobe and no money for a big next year.
What Kobe understands about what PHISH is doing in NY would also understand that A front line of Bargs/Dalembart/Cole is not chamnpionship quality. what he understands in the following year those two leave and no money to replace them.

Oh wait, He played Rucker, Im sorry, then he is down for the "Mecca" which magically will enhance our bigs?

Chill Nalod....nobody is lobbying for this to happen. Just saying it could. The knicks are the only team that could take on Kobe without trading half their team. We're talking Amare for Kobe straight up....you can add other players to make it interesting, like Boozer or Jordan Hill and Shump or JR...so we could get a decent big to take the ride with Kobe because the Lakers have a power fwd log jam

Just mention that the Coliseum is the true mecca. It always calms Nalod down.