nixluva wrote:There are a LOT of UK posters who just want to talk Basketball. Stick to the subject more often and we really don't have a problem. It can get a bit testy sometimes but for the most part we tend to stay on topic pretty well.

I thought the presence of Phil would make for a much more positive and future looking forum. His early moves has IMO been confidence boosting to say the least. Fish looked pretty good in SL as did our young prospects. Things are looking up with our cap in the future and the team is improved for this season as well. So I just can't understand the negativity or need to get distracted by silly arguments not having to do with this years Knicks team. There's so much to talk about for this year's Knicks team and next.

you are a good poster and are entitled to having an optimistic outlook on matters.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Nothing says I think "you're not playing the right way" like offering a $124 mil contract!
MDA already tried to get Melo to do less chucking and more distributing. Hopefully Phil has more power and the message actually gets through to Melo

I posted an explanation of what went wrong with Melo and MDA. MDA's system is really PG dominant and we didn't have a PG who could run it until Lin. Melo didn't like that and in my opinion he pouted and didn't really buy in.
Melo never really vibed with MDA on a deeper level and I think he resisted really going all out in what MDA was asking him to do early in that season. That was totally wrong IMO. I think Melo has matured a lot since then. After getting what he thought he wanted in Woody's ISO ball, I think he now knows that he can't do that and expect to go far.

Phil's Triangle is also team oriented like MDA's system but it's not PG dominated and that is the one key difference which I think makes it the PERFECT system for Melo. Since the ball in put in the hands of a forward or Center as a focal point of the offense, that will allow Melo to 1st look for cutting teammates or open shooters depending on what the defense does. He's able to call his own number when he is single covered or pass the ball and start the action over. He'll get the ball in the Pinch Post often, which is a 2 man game and he's been PROVEN to be excellent in the PnR.

Carmelo Anthony, as it so happens, is the best pick-and-roll scorer in the NBA.
That’s right, according to Synergy, no one scores more than Melo’s 1.12 PPP on these sets.

On high screen-and-rolls in particular, which almost always involve Tyson Chandler as the screener, Anthony is an absolute nightmare.

Just like the Heat like to let James receive the screen beyond the 3-point line to give him a head of steam with which to attack the screener’s defender, Anthony is at his best when the play starts far away from the rim. Centers don’t like to come out there, which means Anthony, after he’s run his defender off of the Chandler screen, often arrives at the free throw line with a one-on-one opportunity against the other team’s least agile defender.

Here’s where that tight dribble control comes to bear. Anthony’s hesitation and in-and-out dribbles freeze the defender just long enough for him to create a driving angle, and the same skills that make Anthony a great post player make him next to impossible to stop once he gets his shoulder past the help defender.

You won’t see Anthony punctuate his drives with high-flying dunks, but that’s partly because he loves to go up off of two feet, which reduces the height of his leap but fully leverages his tremendous strength. Even against a 7-footer, Anthony can create space to bank the ball in off the glass.

And because he’s so powerful, even if he misses he almost always takes the defender out of contention for the rebound. The majority of Anthony’s missed shots at the rim off of pick-and-rolls have stayed in the Knicks’ possession — including a few follow dunks from Tyson Chandler.

So basically this could be a great offense for Melo for multiple reasons. The off ball actions and his being in his spots and able to create easy looks for himself or a teammate. The way Woody was using Melo was actually not the most efficient even if Melo likes to work ISO. He can still get those looks but now in the flow of the offense which is designed to give him one on one opps, only not with everyone else just standing and watching. The other players have a role and keep on moving. Notice how player just keep moving after the post player gets the ball. There's always an outlet at the top and cutters, guys coming around screens on curls...

+1, excellent post.

We will now be treated to 15 pages of why scoring off the pick and roll is a meaningless statistic, that makes no teammates better, destroys team defense and is a hallmark of all self-absorbed, greedy one-way players.

[edit: from the 16th century, that is]

jrodmc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Nothing says I think "you're not playing the right way" like offering a $124 mil contract!
MDA already tried to get Melo to do less chucking and more distributing. Hopefully Phil has more power and the message actually gets through to Melo

I posted an explanation of what went wrong with Melo and MDA. MDA's system is really PG dominant and we didn't have a PG who could run it until Lin. Melo didn't like that and in my opinion he pouted and didn't really buy in.
Melo never really vibed with MDA on a deeper level and I think he resisted really going all out in what MDA was asking him to do early in that season. That was totally wrong IMO. I think Melo has matured a lot since then. After getting what he thought he wanted in Woody's ISO ball, I think he now knows that he can't do that and expect to go far.

Phil's Triangle is also team oriented like MDA's system but it's not PG dominated and that is the one key difference which I think makes it the PERFECT system for Melo. Since the ball in put in the hands of a forward or Center as a focal point of the offense, that will allow Melo to 1st look for cutting teammates or open shooters depending on what the defense does. He's able to call his own number when he is single covered or pass the ball and start the action over. He'll get the ball in the Pinch Post often, which is a 2 man game and he's been PROVEN to be excellent in the PnR.

Carmelo Anthony, as it so happens, is the best pick-and-roll scorer in the NBA.
That’s right, according to Synergy, no one scores more than Melo’s 1.12 PPP on these sets.

On high screen-and-rolls in particular, which almost always involve Tyson Chandler as the screener, Anthony is an absolute nightmare.

Just like the Heat like to let James receive the screen beyond the 3-point line to give him a head of steam with which to attack the screener’s defender, Anthony is at his best when the play starts far away from the rim. Centers don’t like to come out there, which means Anthony, after he’s run his defender off of the Chandler screen, often arrives at the free throw line with a one-on-one opportunity against the other team’s least agile defender.

Here’s where that tight dribble control comes to bear. Anthony’s hesitation and in-and-out dribbles freeze the defender just long enough for him to create a driving angle, and the same skills that make Anthony a great post player make him next to impossible to stop once he gets his shoulder past the help defender.

You won’t see Anthony punctuate his drives with high-flying dunks, but that’s partly because he loves to go up off of two feet, which reduces the height of his leap but fully leverages his tremendous strength. Even against a 7-footer, Anthony can create space to bank the ball in off the glass.

And because he’s so powerful, even if he misses he almost always takes the defender out of contention for the rebound. The majority of Anthony’s missed shots at the rim off of pick-and-rolls have stayed in the Knicks’ possession — including a few follow dunks from Tyson Chandler.

So basically this could be a great offense for Melo for multiple reasons. The off ball actions and his being in his spots and able to create easy looks for himself or a teammate. The way Woody was using Melo was actually not the most efficient even if Melo likes to work ISO. He can still get those looks but now in the flow of the offense which is designed to give him one on one opps, only not with everyone else just standing and watching. The other players have a role and keep on moving. Notice how player just keep moving after the post player gets the ball. There's always an outlet at the top and cutters, guys coming around screens on curls...

+1, excellent post.

We will now be treated to 15 pages of why scoring off the pick and roll is a meaningless statistic, that makes no teammates better, destroys team defense and is a hallmark of all self-absorbed, greedy one-way players.

[edit: from the 16th century, that is]

You'll probably hear how that is an isolated stat and that Melo if I am not mistaken didn't have that many plays of the PnR as a roller. I realize that Nix is saying that he will be involved as the screener/roller more this year but its really hard to judge someone on a small sample(if its small I think it was but can not really remember).

smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God

I'm not sure many see it this way at all.

Who do we give credit to above conclusion

Crush?

I was thinking more along the lines of////

PG better if considering both sides of the ball.

Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo= devil
Paul George= mighty God

I'm not sure many see it this way at all.

Who do we give credit to above conclusion

Crush?

I was thinking more along the lines of////

PG better if considering both sides of the ball.

Possibly not worth a Max contract, Melo definitely not worth max contract

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Nothing says I think "you're not playing the right way" like offering a $124 mil contract!
MDA already tried to get Melo to do less chucking and more distributing. Hopefully Phil has more power and the message actually gets through to Melo

I posted an explanation of what went wrong with Melo and MDA. MDA's system is really PG dominant and we didn't have a PG who could run it until Lin. Melo didn't like that and in my opinion he pouted and didn't really buy in.
Melo never really vibed with MDA on a deeper level and I think he resisted really going all out in what MDA was asking him to do early in that season. That was totally wrong IMO. I think Melo has matured a lot since then. After getting what he thought he wanted in Woody's ISO ball, I think he now knows that he can't do that and expect to go far.

Phil's Triangle is also team oriented like MDA's system but it's not PG dominated and that is the one key difference which I think makes it the PERFECT system for Melo. Since the ball in put in the hands of a forward or Center as a focal point of the offense, that will allow Melo to 1st look for cutting teammates or open shooters depending on what the defense does. He's able to call his own number when he is single covered or pass the ball and start the action over. He'll get the ball in the Pinch Post often, which is a 2 man game and he's been PROVEN to be excellent in the PnR.

Carmelo Anthony, as it so happens, is the best pick-and-roll scorer in the NBA.
That’s right, according to Synergy, no one scores more than Melo’s 1.12 PPP on these sets.

On high screen-and-rolls in particular, which almost always involve Tyson Chandler as the screener, Anthony is an absolute nightmare.

Just like the Heat like to let James receive the screen beyond the 3-point line to give him a head of steam with which to attack the screener’s defender, Anthony is at his best when the play starts far away from the rim. Centers don’t like to come out there, which means Anthony, after he’s run his defender off of the Chandler screen, often arrives at the free throw line with a one-on-one opportunity against the other team’s least agile defender.

Here’s where that tight dribble control comes to bear. Anthony’s hesitation and in-and-out dribbles freeze the defender just long enough for him to create a driving angle, and the same skills that make Anthony a great post player make him next to impossible to stop once he gets his shoulder past the help defender.

You won’t see Anthony punctuate his drives with high-flying dunks, but that’s partly because he loves to go up off of two feet, which reduces the height of his leap but fully leverages his tremendous strength. Even against a 7-footer, Anthony can create space to bank the ball in off the glass.

And because he’s so powerful, even if he misses he almost always takes the defender out of contention for the rebound. The majority of Anthony’s missed shots at the rim off of pick-and-rolls have stayed in the Knicks’ possession — including a few follow dunks from Tyson Chandler.

So basically this could be a great offense for Melo for multiple reasons. The off ball actions and his being in his spots and able to create easy looks for himself or a teammate. The way Woody was using Melo was actually not the most efficient even if Melo likes to work ISO. He can still get those looks but now in the flow of the offense which is designed to give him one on one opps, only not with everyone else just standing and watching. The other players have a role and keep on moving. Notice how player just keep moving after the post player gets the ball. There's always an outlet at the top and cutters, guys coming around screens on curls...

i have been saying for years that melo is at his most efficient using screens across the free throw line extended, and does it better going from right to left. he does even better with two screens. this isn't news to me, but raises the question of why the hell do the knicks so rarely run this play and go to iso melo?

Because woodson was trying to please melo, even if it meant freezing everybody else out.

gunsnewing wrote:So alls good now? We can kiss and make up?

So you essentially blew up this thread (4 posts in to the thread mind you) by making a strong negative comment about Melo. You probably knew that this would illicit the same negative reaction that has plagued this board over the summer......but just to be sure you created more inflamatory Melo posts along the way to prod other posters along. Then 9 pages in to the thread you create a post questioning why people can't stick to basketball and later asking if everyon can kiss and make up.

In my neighborhood that would be known as a sh!t stirrer.

Back to the point of this thread.....

When a player comes out and publicly states that he wants to become a volume shooter......you have to question his sanity. But then again, what would you expect of a guy who was duped into sending nude selfie photos of himself to some dude on the net......impregnated a stripper than tried to pay her off into getting an abortion.......and slept with a teammates fiancee.

nixluva wrote:Paul George is basically moving in the wrong direction and Melo is saying he wants to buy into a TEAM Oriented Style of play. So that's the end of the argument in my mind. Melo has signed on to playing for a coach and GM who are running the Triangle Offense. There's no real way around playing team ball in this system. The ball and players are going to be moving before Melo gets the ball in his hands and while he has the ball in his hands the other players will still be moving. There's nothing for a Knicks fan to be concerned about in comparing the two players situations. PG lost a teammate who carried some of the scoring load. Melo is gaining a PG who can score and set up teammates and a system that enhances the play of all the players on the team. I'll take Melo playing team ball and this new offense over PG taking more shots.

with melo it has always been lip service to these things. always.

so until i see otherwise melo is guilty until proven innocent and paul george can say whatever he wants and is innocent until proven guilty. i can't imagine a player becoming MORE selfish as he gets older.

people shouldn't have a problem with that, since it is by deeds, not words, that we judge others.