arkrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:Most NBA stars are scorers. They pay the big bucks to the BIG scorers in this league. What you want of course is to get a player who can also defend well. Now to get past the hypothetical, who exactly can this team get? No doubt Marc Gasol is at the top of the list of FA's. He fits the bill of a good player who is a scorer and good defender. To be honest it's hard to get another team's star. I don't know that Phil only has a plan that involves us doing that. It's not practical. That is how you end up with what happened to Walsh. What if you don't get the stars you're targeting? What's the plan B?

So far Phil has taken a multifaceted approach. He replenished the youth which was very important. It seems like he's going to be cap conscious and try to preserve our picks as much as possible.

So far Phil has locked in Melo and Jose til 2017. Prigs is here til 2016 and JR has his option for 2016. THJ and Shane are team options for 2016. Pretty much everything else will be up to Phil and that leaves a lot of roster spots to fill. Phil views the Triangle offense as part of his defense. He's explained that the floor is more balanced in the Triangle and that allows his teams to get back on D. Also because the Triangle should lead to more efficient offense that helps the D as well. Still he's gonna be wanting 2 way Team players for sure.

Who are 2-way players on current roster?
I cannot name one...
The youth is unknown maybes and the rest of the crew are known for offense or defense only.
As strange as it sounds Melo is the closest thing we have to 2-way player with all his defensive issues.

Other than Tim Duncan--who is 2 way star on SA?

Mills, Parker, Tiago,Green, Leonard, Manu...
Don't get me wrong, I am not talking defensive or offensive specialists, but players who can contribute and adequate on both sides of the ball and don't need to be covered by other players.

Leonard is good 2 ways. I can say that about the Knicks Dalembart Larkin Prigioni Shumpert Aldrich JR Smith I dont see in terms of team where SA has so much more defensive potential 1-12 than the Knicks. We have our flaws--so does every team. I see the 2015 Knicks more like the 2012 Dallas Mavericks deep diversified big shooters scorers we have a good balance of players right now--this is not a bad team at all. This team did win 54 games with a good PG and that frontcourt depth that eroded--but we have it back.

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:Most NBA stars are scorers. They pay the big bucks to the BIG scorers in this league. What you want of course is to get a player who can also defend well. Now to get past the hypothetical, who exactly can this team get? No doubt Marc Gasol is at the top of the list of FA's. He fits the bill of a good player who is a scorer and good defender. To be honest it's hard to get another team's star. I don't know that Phil only has a plan that involves us doing that. It's not practical. That is how you end up with what happened to Walsh. What if you don't get the stars you're targeting? What's the plan B?

So far Phil has taken a multifaceted approach. He replenished the youth which was very important. It seems like he's going to be cap conscious and try to preserve our picks as much as possible.

So far Phil has locked in Melo and Jose til 2017. Prigs is here til 2016 and JR has his option for 2016. THJ and Shane are team options for 2016. Pretty much everything else will be up to Phil and that leaves a lot of roster spots to fill. Phil views the Triangle offense as part of his defense. He's explained that the floor is more balanced in the Triangle and that allows his teams to get back on D. Also because the Triangle should lead to more efficient offense that helps the D as well. Still he's gonna be wanting 2 way Team players for sure.

Who are 2-way players on current roster?
I cannot name one...
The youth is unknown maybes and the rest of the crew are known for offense or defense only.
As strange as it sounds Melo is the closest thing we have to 2-way player with all his defensive issues.

Other than Tim Duncan--who is 2 way star on SA?

Mills, Parker, Tiago,Green, Leonard, Manu...
Don't get me wrong, I am not talking defensive or offensive specialists, but players who can contribute and adequate on both sides of the ball and don't need to be covered by other players.

Leonard is good 2 ways. I can say that about the Knicks Dalembart Larkin Prigioni Shumpert Aldrich JR Smith I dont see in terms of team where SA has so much more defensive potential 1-12 than the Knicks. We have our flaws--so does every team. I see the 2015 Knicks more like the 2012 Dallas Mavericks deep diversified big shooters scorers we have a good balance of players right now--this is not a bad team at all. This team did win 54 games with a good PG and that frontcourt depth that eroded--but we have it back.

Yep. Kawhi is simply "good" 2 ways and there isn't much difference between the defending champions and a team that one 30 odd games last year. Wait...WHAT?

I seriously hope the optimists are right but I don't see next years squad as doing anything special. It's basically the same team with a slight upgrade at PG (on offense, defense Calderon is just as bad as Felton).

I like our yoots but are Larkin and Early et al really going to make a huge impact? Hardaway has a ways to go and is currently a huge defensive liablilty. Shump's d is way overrated. Cole Aldrich has potential but when has he ever delivered for an entire season? Is he capabLe? We don't know. Which JR Smith is showing up?

Still shocked you characterized Kawhi as simply "good" (he is one of the best wings in the NBA factoring age and a finals MVP at age what 23?) and defensively he is light years beyond anyone we have (he guarded Lebron in the finals just about as well as you could in the finals) And overall the Spurs D is much better than ours at every position. We don't have one elite defender on our team.

Believe me I want nothing more to be wrong.

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:Most NBA stars are scorers. They pay the big bucks to the BIG scorers in this league. What you want of course is to get a player who can also defend well. Now to get past the hypothetical, who exactly can this team get? No doubt Marc Gasol is at the top of the list of FA's. He fits the bill of a good player who is a scorer and good defender. To be honest it's hard to get another team's star. I don't know that Phil only has a plan that involves us doing that. It's not practical. That is how you end up with what happened to Walsh. What if you don't get the stars you're targeting? What's the plan B?

So far Phil has taken a multifaceted approach. He replenished the youth which was very important. It seems like he's going to be cap conscious and try to preserve our picks as much as possible.

So far Phil has locked in Melo and Jose til 2017. Prigs is here til 2016 and JR has his option for 2016. THJ and Shane are team options for 2016. Pretty much everything else will be up to Phil and that leaves a lot of roster spots to fill. Phil views the Triangle offense as part of his defense. He's explained that the floor is more balanced in the Triangle and that allows his teams to get back on D. Also because the Triangle should lead to more efficient offense that helps the D as well. Still he's gonna be wanting 2 way Team players for sure.

Who are 2-way players on current roster?
I cannot name one...
The youth is unknown maybes and the rest of the crew are known for offense or defense only.
As strange as it sounds Melo is the closest thing we have to 2-way player with all his defensive issues.

Other than Tim Duncan--who is 2 way star on SA?

Mills, Parker, Tiago,Green, Leonard, Manu...
Don't get me wrong, I am not talking defensive or offensive specialists, but players who can contribute and adequate on both sides of the ball and don't need to be covered by other players.

Leonard is good 2 ways. I can say that about the Knicks Dalembart Larkin Prigioni Shumpert Aldrich JR Smith I dont see in terms of team where SA has so much more defensive potential 1-12 than the Knicks. We have our flaws--so does every team. I see the 2015 Knicks more like the 2012 Dallas Mavericks deep diversified big shooters scorers we have a good balance of players right now--this is not a bad team at all. This team did win 54 games with a good PG and that frontcourt depth that eroded--but we have it back.

Yep. Kawhi is simply "good" 2 ways and there isn't much difference between the defending champions and a team that one 30 odd games last year. Wait...WHAT?

I seriously hope the optimists are right but I don't see next years squad as doing anything special. It's basically the same team with a slight upgrade at PG (on offense, defense Calderon is just as bad as Felton).

I like our yoots but are Larkin and Early et al really going to make a huge impact? Hardaway has a ways to go and is currently a huge defensive liablilty. Shump's d is way overrated. Cole Aldrich has potential but when has he ever delivered for an entire season? Is he capabLe? We don't know. Which JR Smith is showing up?

Still shocked you characterized Kawhi as simply "good" (he is one of the best wings in the NBA factoring age and a finals MVP at age what 23?) and defensively he is light years beyond anyone we have (he guarded Lebron in the finals just about as well as you could in the finals) And overall the Spurs D is much better than ours at every position. We don't have one elite defender on our team.

Believe me I want nothing more to be wrong.

The only reason we have all this players in place is nobody will take them from us in exchange of anything useful.
I hope Phil/Fish will be able to increase the value for some and develop others.
But I have 0 expectations for next season.
It is transitional year and result is are irrelevant.
30 or 40 wins will not get this team anywhere in the draft and as far attracting free agents.
If Phil will be able to blow it up and Melo will suck in triangle team ball we can be much better of.
We have our pick and Melo may request a trade (not sure anybody in right mind will trade for this ridiculous contract zo).
But who knows. NBA if full of idiots. So it is always a chance.

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Who said were looking for stars, That was walsh and the media's plan. Having cap space gives you options..

Throughout this board guys say we don't need scoring. If we don't and we have options.....

options to do what exactly? Everyone likes to complain but nobody can pin point any player we should get or can get. Nobody wants to sign anybody and nobody wants to trade if it adds salary no matter how good....

What are we supposed to do?

design a time machine and make sure melo walks would be a great place to start

Bonn1997 wrote:Are you looking for names of specific players or specific trade proposals or just a general philosophy?
Regarding the latter, I'd say you have to look at all the metrics and try to get players who are good value at their prices. I don't think there's any point in listing specific players because almost every NBA player can be great, awful, or in between depending on the price. Occasionally I list specific players who I suspect are being undervalued and can be gotten cheaply but that's just a guess. I think Millsap was badly undervalued a year ago and I suspect he still will be next year as an FA but that's just a guess. Someone could give him $60+ mil for all we know.

Solid regular season, All-Star appearance, really good playoff showing, USA invite, another good year/////

He won't be undervalued

He'll be a target of many teams, I could see him going to Houston

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I just get frustrated by fans that love to ridicule other fans ideas and players in general, yet won't say who we should get. Just say the knicks need to get a player that can xyz is not enough. Just saying we need to wait til certain date is not enough. You need to name players you want to target. Otherwise to me you are just trolling.

There are about 200 or 300 players in the league who could be great or bad acquisitions depending on what we have to give up to get them. You can't list each one and you can't know who to single out and discuss unless you know what the other GM will demand in a trade or what the player will demand as an FA. There's really nothing to do other than either evaluate what has already occurred or offer sheer speculation about possible trades. Naming players you would target and saying how you would get them may sound more concrete to you but it's just living in a fictional land.

Isn't that why we are here on a message board? To talk about the team and discuss ways to improve?

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I just get frustrated by fans that love to ridicule other fans ideas and players in general, yet won't say who we should get. Just say the knicks need to get a player that can xyz is not enough. Just saying we need to wait til certain date is not enough. You need to name players you want to target. Otherwise to me you are just trolling.

There are about 200 or 300 players in the league who could be great or bad acquisitions depending on what we have to give up to get them. You can't list each one and you can't know who to single out and discuss unless you know what the other GM will demand in a trade or what the player will demand as an FA. There's really nothing to do other than either evaluate what has already occurred or offer sheer speculation about possible trades. Naming players you would target and saying how you would get them may sound more concrete to you but it's just living in a fictional land.

A player might be good at 8 million and be bad at 12 million, its kind of how I feel about Marc Gasol. at 12-15 good player at 18-21 bad. Its all about bang for your buck. Getting a player at all cost is not a good strategy if you want to win a title

EnySpree wrote:So how do we get better is nobody wants to make any moves or sign anyone?

Do better coaching. Do better players development.
Create a culture of accountability. Promote leadership, team play, camaraderie.
Knicks as organization and fans included should stop dreaming and gambling and start working.
Boring... yes. But there is no other way to get better and became winning club.

Bonn1997 wrote:There's nothing concrete in the OP's message. What posters here and what players are you referring to? Is this some kind of straw man argument against those who thought we shouldn't make Melo the highest paid player on the planet?