meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:People just don't get that efficient offensive teams can win too. The trick is to play just enough defense and ball out on offense. One of Phil's Laker teams did this. The 2000-01 finals team was great offensively but was 23rd in Pts allowed and 21st in defensive rating. They were #2 in offensive rating. It's not how you want to do things but it has been done. Not every great defensive team wins the title. It's more complex than that. Gotta hope they can scheme a defense like the Mavs did. Find a way to hide the weak links on D.

Sorry but how do you find a way to hide anywhere between 3-4 out of the 5 players on the court? Melo (on most days), Amare, Bargs, Calderon, THJR, JR( when he is clubbing) and Shumpert when he had confidence issues.

ask Dallas... they won 50 games with Monta and Calderon starting in the backcourt and Dirk at PF, three NBA turnstiles if there ever were any. Marion is a great defender and Dalembert is here now. Vince Carter was the #1 guy off the bench. Thats a horrible defensive team. Horrible... but they won 50 and took the Spurs to 7. Somehow when players come to the Knicks only the bad part of their games surface and fans seem to flush the good.

One other thing. This rookie coach has a great staff and the full 100% backing of Phil Jackson. That and you have a bunch of guys in walk years. People act like this is going to be a mail it in year. Take a closer look....

They also had more firepower on offense. We have ME lo and THJR.
Amare and Bargs are good but I need to see what they can actually being before I count them.

Come again? Bargs is what?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:48 Wins, East Division title, and top 4 seeding in playoffs.

Nets are DONE
Celtics are in rebuild and Rondo is still an unknown after his surgery
Raptors will make playoffs but will be closer to 44 wins...
Lowry played his ass off on that contract year and will fall back down to earth.

Excellent points. I am going to up the win total to 51. I think the Knicks are going to go on a 90's like run where they have sustained success that this time hopefully ends up with a title in ny.

51 wins is unrealistic.

dk - all business all the time? Can't you crack a joke? Use sarcasm (humorous kind)? Or even a smiley face?

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:48 Wins, East Division title, and top 4 seeding in playoffs.

Nets are DONE
Celtics are in rebuild and Rondo is still an unknown after his surgery
Raptors will make playoffs but will be closer to 44 wins...
Lowry played his ass off on that contract year and will fall back down to earth.

Excellent points. I am going to up the win total to 51. I think the Knicks are going to go on a 90's like run where they have sustained success that this time hopefully ends up with a title in ny.

51 wins is unrealistic.

dk - all business all the time? Can't you crack a joke? Use sarcasm (humorous kind)? Or even a smiley face?

a skeleton walks into a bar and says to the bartender: "get me a beer... and a mop!"

There ya go!

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:People just don't get that efficient offensive teams can win too. The trick is to play just enough defense and ball out on offense. One of Phil's Laker teams did this. The 2000-01 finals team was great offensively but was 23rd in Pts allowed and 21st in defensive rating. They were #2 in offensive rating. It's not how you want to do things but it has been done. Not every great defensive team wins the title. It's more complex than that. Gotta hope they can scheme a defense like the Mavs did. Find a way to hide the weak links on D.

Sorry but how do you find a way to hide anywhere between 3-4 out of the 5 players on the court? Melo (on most days), Amare, Bargs, Calderon, THJR, JR( when he is clubbing) and Shumpert when he had confidence issues.

ask Dallas... they won 50 games with Monta and Calderon starting in the backcourt and Dirk at PF, three NBA turnstiles if there ever were any. Marion is a great defender and Dalembert is here now. Vince Carter was the #1 guy off the bench. Thats a horrible defensive team. Horrible... but they won 50 and took the Spurs to 7. Somehow when players come to the Knicks only the bad part of their games surface and fans seem to flush the good.

One other thing. This rookie coach has a great staff and the full 100% backing of Phil Jackson. That and you have a bunch of guys in walk years. People act like this is going to be a mail it in year. Take a closer look....

They also had more firepower on offense. We have ME lo and THJR.
Amare and Bargs are good but I need to see what they can actually being before I count them.

The Knicks have PLENTY of firepower but now with a better group at PG that change will make everyone better. Jose, Prigs and Larkin is a much better PG contingent than what we had last year. When Prigs played the offense improved a great deal. Now with Jose the starters should get a nice bump in production over the same player with Felton starting.

Jose   45.6% FG 44.9% 3pt 82.5% FT
Prigs  46.1% FG 46.4% 3pt 91.7% FT

Larkin had poor shooting numbers but I suspect he'll be better than he was in his rookie year after having a setback in breaking his ankle. We didn't have a change of pace PG last year so that should help.

With JR, THJ and Shump playing in the Triangle it should help them to get great looks and slashes to the basket. This could help them to be much more efficient and get to the line more. Melo, STAT and Bargs should get a lot of good looks as well. This puts them all in their sweet spots. Melo should get more open looks than he's used to getting.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:People just don't get that efficient offensive teams can win too. The trick is to play just enough defense and ball out on offense. One of Phil's Laker teams did this. The 2000-01 finals team was great offensively but was 23rd in Pts allowed and 21st in defensive rating. They were #2 in offensive rating. It's not how you want to do things but it has been done. Not every great defensive team wins the title. It's more complex than that. Gotta hope they can scheme a defense like the Mavs did. Find a way to hide the weak links on D.

Sorry but how do you find a way to hide anywhere between 3-4 out of the 5 players on the court? Melo (on most days), Amare, Bargs, Calderon, THJR, JR( when he is clubbing) and Shumpert when he had confidence issues.

ask Dallas... they won 50 games with Monta and Calderon starting in the backcourt and Dirk at PF, three NBA turnstiles if there ever were any. Marion is a great defender and Dalembert is here now. Vince Carter was the #1 guy off the bench. Thats a horrible defensive team. Horrible... but they won 50 and took the Spurs to 7. Somehow when players come to the Knicks only the bad part of their games surface and fans seem to flush the good.

One other thing. This rookie coach has a great staff and the full 100% backing of Phil Jackson. That and you have a bunch of guys in walk years. People act like this is going to be a mail it in year. Take a closer look....

They also had more firepower on offense. We have ME lo and THJR.
Amare and Bargs are good but I need to see what they can actually being before I count them.

nyvector16 wrote:Totally agree fishmike..

Calderon used to light us up for years and when we finally had an answer that one game with Lin, Lin became larger than life.
There is a reason for that.. Calderon is a good Point Guard...

Felton is so substandard, the Mavs went out and hired his old nemesis Jameer Nelson.
The difference in PG play alone will make for at least 6 more wins this year for the Knicks.

Considering we were 11 games off the division, that's huge. I think the difference in injuries gives us another 3 games and coaching another 4 games (remember those heartbreaking losses)

After that year, the team we put out last year was a whole year removed from Dantoni's coaching and therefore needed actual coaching on offense which Woodson was not ready to handle given his extremely limited coaching skills on offense.

If Kidd had been hitting that 3 the way he was earlier in the season we would have swept the Celtics and beat Indiana during that playoff run.

gunsnewing wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:I know I am in the extreme minority on this, but I don't think it was Kidd that got this team to 54 wins.
In my opinion the 54 wins was a result of using Dantoni's offense, while instituting actual defensive schemes that the team was totally lacking under Pringles...

After that year, the team we put out last year was a whole year removed from Dantoni's coaching and therefore needed actual coaching on offense which Woodson was not ready to handle given his extremely limited coaching skills on offense.

You just made nixluva's day.

I think it was a combination of both Kidd and Dantoni.

Woodson was downright awful. It was evident coming out of camp

Originally I was angry with Melo for how he handled the MDA thing. I think they could easily have won with MDA and Woody on the bench. People don't remember this but the defense wasn't bad when MDA was still here. It was the offense that was struggling that year partly due to Melo's poor play and the lack of a PG. Woody was the beneficiary of using MDA's offense and having Melo finally start playing hard that year as opposed to how he played for MDA. I don't think Melo wanted to play in a PG dominant offense. So they kept the part of the offense that was more about spreading the floor and taking 3's. Some PnR with Felton, but Felton wasn't a threat like Lin was. Melo knew that MDA loved Lin more and that I think is why they let Lin walk more than anything. IMO it's always been about Melo.

Now with Melo having learned how bad it can be playing ISO ball, I think he's more willing to try the Triangle. The difference between the Triangle and MDA's offense is that it's not PG dominant and that still puts Melo at the core of the offense. He will get plenty of touches but at the same time there is still ball and player movement to keep everyone else involve. It's probably the one offense that Melo can play his way and still have everyone else excel. IMO it's the offense he was made to play in. The ball and players keep moving even when he has the ball which is a HUGE difference from what we've been playing. Teams won't be able to just load up on Melo cuz there's too much movement from the rest of our players. This is a perfect offense for Melo.