VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:

Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.

THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.

Can't judge Hardaway Jr to critical as last season(his rookie yr) was horrible all around. He is under a rookie scale contract so it would be worth it to see his game evolve with a full year under the triangle and with Fisher & Phil behind him. There is really no reason to move him unless blown away by the offer. He seems like a kid with his head on straight and only focused on basketball as well. Could be groomed into a consistent glue type of guy.

VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:

Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.

THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.

Already seen some improvement in THJ, more willing to take it to the rim, a more vocal leader. I do worry about his jacking up too many shots more than anything. Defense will take longer, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to pass up a shot, make the extra pass. I wouldn't call him untouchable either, but it would have to be a very good deal because of THJ's ability (already)to light up a scoreboard.

F500ONE wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

What shooting guards do we have that can do what Shump does?? When Shump is focused like he was when Phil came on he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I understand that he's been inconsistent with his play especially his offense but with this new culture that we're building with Phil and Fish i truly think Shump can be one hell of an asset. If i had my choice i would do what i could to trade JR even though i think he's actually worth more than he's getting paid.

What does Shump do? His defense is overrated and when he's focused he's still only a marginal rule player. When JR is focused he's all star caliber.

Wellington can do what shump does easy. So can Shannon Brown. Hit shots, blend in and play defense. That's their jobs. Shump isn't the difference maker in any aspect of the game and he's not head and shoulders better than these two.

There are people around the league that believe in the bull**** that shump is this defensive stalwart with untapped potential, so he can be moved easily. We need to get better. We have ThJr, Jr Smith and the option to keep wellington or Shannon....

See if we can get dunlevy, Matt barnes, delphino, or someone who can pass, cut, make shots and defend, flat out play the small fwd spot. Having a shooting guard with point guard skills playing small fwd isn't winning basketball

Are some are stuck on his playoff series against Boston and his tip in against the Spurs?

I don't get it Shumpert is very much overrated, we need to get past these kind of sentimental moments

Overrated by who? I don't think anyone is putting shump over the top, but lets be honest, what kind of a stock do any of these players have currently.

Larkin got very little run, he's a throw in for any trade.

Shump is also a throw in, your not going to get any value for him.

Jr save face at the end of the season, but he has a player option, and a suspect personality, too risky, you'll have to sell him low.

So basically you have 3 guys who you have to sell very low in order to get back some marginal back up sf.

If im packaging any 2 those guys (which would be the only way you would get good value) I would hope to get a player of gallo's caliber as a back up SF.

Right now it looks like the knicks aren't going to make any silly ass lateral Isiah thomas trade, I trust phil knows what the hell he's doing.

Uptown wrote:

dwiley20 wrote:Let JR go...Hardaway no defense...smith no defense...Larkin is the futue young and quick!!!! calderon n prigioni is old

Let JR go for what? I know he;s a head case, but he's the best all round back court player on the team. He's also, arguably our second best scorer for better or worse. I get that people don't like him but he's too talented to just dump for a bag of balls

he can ball but when you have younger players like shump n hardaway i think it hampers them by having JR...dumping n get draft picks or a good Center

It's obvious that P(F)hisher doesn't want low IQ players on the team, players that will not have the ability to play a system basketball

gunsnewing wrote:

EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

smackeddog wrote:The reason Shump hasn't improved may because he tore his ACL and hasn't had a summer to work on his game some he entered the league- ridiculous to give up on him this early, especially as he showed an improved 3pt shot in his second year.

Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts. Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...