knicks1248 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

VCoug wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:So we have a team that was expected to and then actually played at a .450 level. And the fans want like 90% of the players back?!
I put keep him for 3 of the 15.

expected by who? That was a 54 win team. The expectation was they would be in the playoffs again and win the Atlantic. Three straight years in the playoffs and you (and others) act like this is a perrenial lottery team and people shouldnt be suprised. Melo's first losing season in a decade in the NBA and first time he's missed the playoffs. For you stat heads thats called a "one off"

I like how your "three straight years in the playoffs" conveniently ignores the first two years we barely made it in as an 8 and 7 seed with records barely over .500

Im glad you like it. Here's more for you to like:
4 years prior to Melo trade: 29 wins
4 years since Melo trade: 45 wins

Is 45 wins good? Exciting? The goal? All Ive ever hoped for? No... despite TFK telling you thats how folks who dont hate Melo feel its not the case. Knicks have gotten better since adding a star player. They have a lot MORE ground to cover. Thats why Phil is here... erase the one-off disaster this year was an take Knicks to the next level. That would be competing with the top seeds and winning the division again.

Not hard to see. Unless your blinded by hate for a certain player, then all you will see is hate. If you dont hate and have been watching you will have noticed one player has been very productive over those last 4 years and one player only. We need to get better, much better and there is a lot of dead weight on this roster. There is talent to work with though.

fish, the knicks were 28-26 when we got carmelo.. 14-14 after the trade that year..

The next year we were 36-30, that was the year that jeremy lin saved the NY knicks season..

the following year, we add kidd, had rasheed, KT, and we won 54 games....

this year we were a dissapointing 37 win team..

you keep going back 4 years prior to the trade, how about that same year.. really it is being dishonest trying to go back 4 years fish and honestly irrelevant.. it is akin to trying to justify buying a BMW that was a lemon because 4 years ago, you had a Benz that was even worse.. ok, well what bout the well running lexus you got rid of that same year to get that lemon BMW? why are you skipping over that? no need to go back 4 years fish, we know those were bad, but we didn't trade any of those guys for carmelo.. what we did trade was guys from a team that was above.500 and almost 4 years later, we suck.. we are what you are describing 4 years before carmelo..

we have not been a good team fish, we have been average since the trade... you make it look like we get carmelo and we are smashing out 55 plus win seasons since.. it has been far from that, we have been a zoo!!! a mess for the most part..

that 28-26 win team had youth, picks and cap space... and a record above .500.. I will take that.. because right now we have nothing.. No picks, no cap space, a boneheaded player who wrecked the team to get here and is now talking free agency... a team that turned on the coach.. again....

Ok we have phil, that is about it, and he isn't coaching either... I don't know how in the world you are telling me we are better off.. but go ahead, call this carmelo hate.. any fan, should look at this carmelo era as a huge failure and it has nothing, nothing at all to do with hate, if you look at it objectively...

I remember when we got Melo. People would have declared it an utter failure if they knew we were going to have a mid 40 win average. (And even worse if they knew we were going to win only one playoff series.)

Those predictors probably did not predict that Amare would be from the worst signings in history and that we would amnesty our PG.

Either way the era has been a failure.

dude like what is your beef with amare? you will add a hate remark for him in almost every post..that dude can t do nothing right in your eyes, that makes your comments completely bias and have no merit..

we have had 41 season with no championship, thats more than an era, thats 3 generations

I think it was one of the dumbest moves we ever made. He has been an epic failure - I am not sure what your issue is with this.

I don't really hate him (like some posters hate Melo), I just hate that we were dumb enough to sign him and then even dumber not to amnesty him.

He himself is not a bad guy just a bad player as a knick that handcuffed us pretty badly.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And wins produced, which had the Knicks at 35 wins this year:
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/teams
Clearly it had some teams off and didn't do as was as the win shares approach overall though.
I'll try to find more but that's so far
Schoene: 37
Win shares: 43
Wins produced: 35
Most fans here: 45 to 60
Actual: 37

Yup... they had the Nuggs winning more games then the Pacers (39). Your honestly posting this? My god talk about zero value dude. Garbage

Yeah, wins produced was better than most observers but worse than most metrics. It's nowhere near the garbage predictions from here (including my 47 win trash prediction). I was just being thorough. I don't give WP much weight. With Indiana, they were off by about as much as fans here were with the Knicks after all. Given how hard doing just one team was, imagine if fans here had to make 30 predictions!
Even though I'm harsh on WP, with the Nuggets, I'm sure they were working on the statement that Gallo would be returning before the all-star break. That probably was a 3 to 4 win difference.

do metrics show the impact when your 2nd best player a year ago starts suspended and shoots like 30% for two months? Do they show take into account that two of your starers would miss big chunks of the season? Did metrics predict Felton and Shump, two guards that we needed good play from would have career low years and fail to scratch 40% shooting?

I mean you have yet to show me anything scientific that has any accuracy. You picked 47 wins because the Knicks won 54 the year before and their core was intact. I picked 50 wins for the same reason. Sorry, you cant tout a system that picks the Pacers to win 39 games when most everyone with eyes picked them to fight the Heat for the top spot. Its silly. You put too much into these #s and not enough into traditional stats. PPG, REBs, Ast, Stls, TOs, FG% and Wins and losses still trump all man. Sorry... they just do

NYY1NYK2 wrote:Amare gets back into everyones good graces and is given "savior" status if he opts out and resigns for way less

Actually, if he does that I would think he is an idiot though certainly back on my good side

CrushAlot wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Hmmmm...fans want Fatton and Bargs gone. I get that. I don't understand the hatred for KMart. I also don't understand why its 50/50 for JR. JR should be gone.

Not sure what Tyson has done on or off the court that has fans voting to keep him.

These fans listen to media types who harp on him being a champion eve though he only played 28mins per game for Dallas. Dallas knee what they were doing. He split time with Haywood. Also he won that token DPOY award when he was actually better the previous year. Noah should've won