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Amare confirms team mutiny against Michael Woodson
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Nalod
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4/17/2014  4:23 PM
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


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jrodmc
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4/17/2014  4:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/17/2014  4:32 PM
tkf wrote:
jrodmc wrote:We are now talking about Amare Stoudamire's defensive "potential".
It has actually come to this.


Up next: Stat's latent ability to lead the league in assists.

Next week, a new thread introducing proof positive that Marbury and Melo have had absolutely identical Knick careers.

no, you are talking about it.. but hey thats a change for you, at least its basketball..

Are you honestly this stupid?

tkf wrote:.. not exactly a two way player, but certainly one who early in his career showed some defensive potential.

tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:Defensive potential? Really?

yea, really.....

Try posting less and thinking more. It might help make you look less foolish, just in case you're interested in that.

jrodmc
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4/17/2014  4:31 PM
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:we are having the same problems now as we did when marbury was here... we didn't have it when amare got here... but boy as soon as we started adding the denver malcontents, we are back to the good ole marbury days.... wow....

I look forward to seeing what topics you post about once Melo has gone- you've been stuck in a rut for a long, long time.

Don't worry, he'll regale us with stat lines every time Melo has a lousy game for whoever he ends up playing for.

Sort of how he posts about Marbles now in every other thread...

holfresh
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4/17/2014  4:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/17/2014  6:09 PM
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


Is Tony Parker a high character guy, who tried and seemingly successfully banged his teammate's wife??...If u smile and speak softly, I guess u are high character??...Is Steven Jackson a high character guy??..Robert Horry, a high character guy???..All Spurs..Wasn't the GM arrested for DWI??..Didn't Layden have a high character team??
Papabear
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4/17/2014  5:26 PM
fishmike wrote:Can we name one positive thing MDA did as a coach with the Knicks? Want to give him credit for Linsanity OK. What happened afte MDA was fired? 18-6 I think? Melo wins player of the month? Its like holding anyone accountable for sabotaging Larry Brown. I liked MDA here... I enjoyed his musings but was he good coach here? No. He was terrible and the minute he was gone the entire team played better, not just one guy.. the whole team.

Once again it points to the dysfunction in the front office and how the coach and FO were light years away from the same page.

Woodson... was he good last year? No, I dont think he was. Clear as day that was a veteran team who knew how to play. But this year when we needed coaching, when we needed Woody to be a leader to guide these guys all he did was constantly say my bad or this is on me.. whoop de doo. The team was bad but what did Woody do to try and turn the tides? Oh right... at some point he decided to play Amare with like 25 games left and things looked pretty good. Wow.

It will be nice for once to see the entire FO on the same page... and the roster to reflect that. Hard to accuratly judge coaching etc when you have this level of dysfunction

Papabear Says

Lets just face it that the team was not really that good. When ever they ran up against a young running and gunning team we had trouble. No one feared us. Thats why those young guns would have record game achievements when they played us.Woody will be replaced but will still be a part of the Knicks organization because he is a good soldier.

Papabear
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4/17/2014  5:30 PM
tkf wrote:we are having the same problems now as we did when marbury was here... we didn't have it when amare got here... but boy as soon as we started adding the denver malcontents, we are back to the good ole marbury days.... wow....

Papabear Says

Go back to sleep! you are in dream land.

Papabear
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4/17/2014  5:34 PM
fishmike wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.

it did. He signed Lamar Odom.

Haha.. you boys are gonna have a tough off season

Papabear Says

Fishmike Fishmike LOL That was a knock out punch. He suckered himself up and you threw the punch. hey that was nice

Papabear
Swishfm3
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4/17/2014  6:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/17/2014  6:08 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I find it interesting how avg or below offensive players that are good/great defenders are two-way players but efficient offensive players that are avg/good defenders are not two-way players.

You mean like P.George?

Nalod
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4/17/2014  8:49 PM
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:we are having the same problems now as we did when marbury was here... we didn't have it when amare got here... but boy as soon as we started adding the denver malcontents, we are back to the good ole marbury days.... wow....

Papabear Says

Go back to sleep! you are in dream land.

We laughed at Nyets K. Humphries Kardasian adventure, and we now get the skittle eating crackhead who had to hit the pipe to escape their clutches!

Zen comes in all different forms!

Really, OhDumb is no downside. The addiction thing satisfies Dolans reclamation instinct for a new pet project, its very "Zen" to benevolently help a former player get his life back on track, and he can teach the principles better than metta who in mid sentence is prone to discuss his "Jesus baby teeth" miracle and get off track.

mreinman
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4/17/2014  9:33 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


Is Tony Parker a high character guy, who tried and seemingly successfully banged his teammate's wife??...If u smile and speak softly, I guess u are high character??...Is Steven Jackson a high character guy??..Robert Horry, a high character guy???..All Spurs..Wasn't the GM arrested for DWI??..Didn't Layden have a high character team??

Good point Holfresh. You need good "on the court" character and that starts at the top. No bull sh1t and no coddling. Play the right way or play somewhere else.

However, Duncan and Pop are the leaders and they seem like high char guys to me.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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4/17/2014  9:43 PM
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.

So I guess the first huge mistake was to bring the most lopsided one way player in the NBA, right?

I just want to make sure that I understand that you and TKF are very fart apart on Amare.

TKF likes him and what he brought here, and you DK hate non two way players/non defensive players, correct?

why are you so concerened with what DK and I like about amare.. we like two way players.. amare has been a favorite of mine since he was in HS.. not exactly a two way player, but certainly one who early in his career showed some defensive potential. I also like players with work ethic, and amare is know as a hard worker.. he is also an electric player, or was in his prime... would he be a player I start a team with.. No, but certaianly a player I enjoyed watching.

you seem to deal in extremes, most lopsided one way player in the NBA? I thought that was allen iverson according to you? the knicks have made worse moves than amare.. all he cost us was money.. in the end he didn't cost us picks or players... and had we not made silly moves after we signed him, we could have mitigated that signing, but that is another story...

I hope that clears things up so you don't go putting words in my mouth...

Iverson? And which "one" of the "ways" was his "one way"?

Amare only costed us money? how about cap flex? The ability to sign others? The ability to have you maxi be able to stay on the court?

Defensive potential? Really?

So far from a two way player and the one way, he never passes the ball but calls for ball movement. NOT THE TYPE OF CAP KILLA THAT I WOULD WANT TO BUILD AROUND.

Oh ... and we talkin playoffs?

you were the one who called iverson one way...

and what cap flex did amare cost us.. we still had room for another max contract.. we just added the wrong players......

Defensive potential? Really?

yea, really.....

So far from a two way player and the one way, he never passes the ball but calls for ball movement. NOT THE TYPE OF CAP KILLA THAT I WOULD WANT TO BUILD AROUND.

not sure what the hell you are arguing.. I wonder if you do most of the time.. not one of us said that we wanted to build around amare.... he was sort of a forced consolation prize.. I liked him as a player.... what point are you trying to make? if any?

I am not sure I know either. You have no consistent stance or views its like trying to catch a drunken grasshopper.

I find it really strange that you like amare but you really like 2 way players (maybe you don't care for 2 way players and that is dk). I find it odd that you stick up for a guy who has done everything wrong and said everything wrong.

"and what cap flex did amare cost us.. we still had room for another max contract.. we just added the wrong players......"

Uh ... I am not sure if you want to retract this or not. I will chalk this up to another "oops" comment.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the "defensive potential" comment. I think you should explain that.

Iverson is not a one way player. He was awful on offense (probably one of the most inefficient high volume shooters of all time) and was an awful defensive player. But then again, I am confused by your (biased) criteria.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
TeamBall
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4/17/2014  9:52 PM
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.

So I guess the first huge mistake was to bring the most lopsided one way player in the NBA, right?

I just want to make sure that I understand that you and TKF are very fart apart on Amare.

TKF likes him and what he brought here, and you DK hate non two way players/non defensive players, correct?

why are you so concerened with what DK and I like about amare.. we like two way players.. amare has been a favorite of mine since he was in HS.. not exactly a two way player, but certainly one who early in his career showed some defensive potential. I also like players with work ethic, and amare is know as a hard worker.. he is also an electric player, or was in his prime... would he be a player I start a team with.. No, but certaianly a player I enjoyed watching.

you seem to deal in extremes, most lopsided one way player in the NBA? I thought that was allen iverson according to you? the knicks have made worse moves than amare.. all he cost us was money.. in the end he didn't cost us picks or players... and had we not made silly moves after we signed him, we could have mitigated that signing, but that is another story...

I hope that clears things up so you don't go putting words in my mouth...

Iverson? And which "one" of the "ways" was his "one way"?

Amare only costed us money? how about cap flex? The ability to sign others? The ability to have you maxi be able to stay on the court?

Defensive potential? Really?

So far from a two way player and the one way, he never passes the ball but calls for ball movement. NOT THE TYPE OF CAP KILLA THAT I WOULD WANT TO BUILD AROUND.

Oh ... and we talkin playoffs?

you were the one who called iverson one way...

and what cap flex did amare cost us.. we still had room for another max contract.. we just added the wrong players......

Defensive potential? Really?

yea, really.....

So far from a two way player and the one way, he never passes the ball but calls for ball movement. NOT THE TYPE OF CAP KILLA THAT I WOULD WANT TO BUILD AROUND.

not sure what the hell you are arguing.. I wonder if you do most of the time.. not one of us said that we wanted to build around amare.... he was sort of a forced consolation prize.. I liked him as a player.... what point are you trying to make? if any?

I am not sure I know either. You have no consistent stance or views its like trying to catch a drunken grasshopper.

I find it really strange that you like amare but you really like 2 way players (maybe you don't care for 2 way players and that is dk). I find it odd that you stick up for a guy who has done everything wrong and said everything wrong.

"and what cap flex did amare cost us.. we still had room for another max contract.. we just added the wrong players......"

Uh ... I am not sure if you want to retract this or not. I will chalk this up to another "oops" comment.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the "defensive potential" comment. I think you should explain that.

Iverson is not a one way player. He was awful on offense (probably one of the most inefficient high volume shooters of all time) and was an awful defensive player. But then again, I am confused by your (biased) criteria.


I think his view of "everything Melo = bad" is as consistent as it gets
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
dk7th
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4/18/2014  12:41 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:I find it interesting how avg or below offensive players that are good/great defenders are two-way players but efficient offensive players that are avg/good defenders are not two-way players.

the former are underrated and are closer to positive-sum players than you realize, and vice-versa for the latter.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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4/18/2014  12:43 AM
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:we are having the same problems now as we did when marbury was here... we didn't have it when amare got here... but boy as soon as we started adding the denver malcontents, we are back to the good ole marbury days.... wow....

I look forward to seeing what topics you post about once Melo has gone- you've been stuck in a rut for a long, long time.

he'll be talking about basketball, watchable knick basketball... because that's what you'll likely see once the clowns get the heave-ho

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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4/18/2014  12:49 AM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


Is Tony Parker a high character guy, who tried and seemingly successfully banged his teammate's wife??...If u smile and speak softly, I guess u are high character??...Is Steven Jackson a high character guy??..Robert Horry, a high character guy???..All Spurs..Wasn't the GM arrested for DWI??..Didn't Layden have a high character team??

are you afraid that jr smith and carmelo won't make the cut? neither defend and both lack character. those are facts, just like your "facts."

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
yellowboy90
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4/18/2014  12:51 AM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


Is Tony Parker a high character guy, who tried and seemingly successfully banged his teammate's wife??...If u smile and speak softly, I guess u are high character??...Is Steven Jackson a high character guy??..Robert Horry, a high character guy???..All Spurs..Wasn't the GM arrested for DWI??..Didn't Layden have a high character team??

are you afraid that jr smith and carmelo won't make the cut? neither defend and both lack character. those are facts, just like your "facts."

actually those are opinions.

dk7th
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4/18/2014  12:55 AM
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.

So I guess the first huge mistake was to bring the most lopsided one way player in the NBA, right?

I just want to make sure that I understand that you and TKF are very fart apart on Amare.

TKF likes him and what he brought here, and you DK hate non two way players/non defensive players, correct?

yes i hate one way players, but i would have settled for a decidedly positive-sum player. amare managed to be that when a quality orchestrator was his teammate. that did not happen in new york. felton is not that guy and it's not even close.

i also want to point out that acquiring stoudemire as a free agent was a necessity brought about by extenuating circumstances. after two years of roster flush and knowing we would endure two losing seasons before seeing daylight, we nonetheless managed to get to 28-26 before being blown to bits.

with the melo fiasco-- another one way player and much closer to zero-sum than people want to acknowledge-- that was a choice and not even close to necessity.

apples to apples please.


What made signing Amare a necessity?

the james dolan "i need a name to put asses in seats" slash nirvana "here we are now entertain us" edict. never underestimate the disease that is james dolan.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
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4/18/2014  1:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/18/2014  1:55 AM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:in san antonio they look for high character players who play defense. i wonder if that the right formula for success.

can't wait for phil jackson's "culture change" edict to take effect.


Is Tony Parker a high character guy, who tried and seemingly successfully banged his teammate's wife??...If u smile and speak softly, I guess u are high character??...Is Steven Jackson a high character guy??..Robert Horry, a high character guy???..All Spurs..Wasn't the GM arrested for DWI??..Didn't Layden have a high character team??

are you afraid that jr smith and carmelo won't make the cut? neither defend and both lack character. those are facts, just like your "facts."

Trying to build a team based on your myopic point of view??..The real world doesn't work that way..U don't get to choose who has good character and who doesn't...

So you are waiting for Phil's culture change are u??..He just signed a guy who was allegedly smoking crack a year ago..You must be beaming..

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4/18/2014  1:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/18/2014  1:57 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Amare who came into the league in a system that stressed playing as a team. All the things said here between playa, nix, myself & others regarding guys refusal to buy into Michael Woodson's offense and defensive strategies because they disagreed with it was just confirmed by Amare.

Stupid switching on pnr's, back door plays and stupid ISO whether it was him or melo he's the coach. All the late game blunders by he himself and his players which again he is responsible for. Total misuse of the roster. Melo 40mins. No Cole, Turray, Tyler who were starving for a chance. Misuse of Amare early. Shitty treatment of Shumpert. Letting JR do whatever he wanted early. Different set of rules for different players. If not for Phil's presense we don't win 25 games. I dont think Michael Woodson will ever be a head coach in the nba again.

Amare says next year they need to be on the same page starting day 1 of camp whatever the plan is.

Thanks Woody. Thank You for subjecting me to the most putrid, pathetic, inexplicably terrible brand of basketball I've ever seen from a team on any level. Thank You for 37-45. 1978 is calling

Why would you bash Woodson when he was the same coach with same system that had them #2 in the East and with 54 wins in 2012/13?

It was the players who quit on Woodson and all of us fans. Woodson never quit - he kept trying -- it was chumps like Tyson/Stat/JR/Shump that threw the season down the toilet. Woodson just stayed with a basic system that has made him a solid coach in the league. I believe he ends this season being +30 games over 500 as a Knicks coach ---


ARE YA Kidding ? LL
You gotta be crazy, as far as winning 2nd round 2012/2013 exit NBA playoffs of course Woodson coached and gets kudos credit.
But you're mad to even speak about a System and Mike Woodson like he accomplished alot outside 54 win season that vets
like JKidd, KThomas and IL-Sheed Wallace led Knicks lockerroom and policed oncourt stuff which aided Woodson and Knicks roster
to Winning!

Lets talk about this post (Thanks Gunsewing!) and the Current Knick coach Mike Woodson whom seem not even into coaching
for his NBA-Knick Life and job back in late January-February.

Lets talk about a coach whom pinned his stubborness to 2 guys outside #1 multi-time superstar/hard worker Melo Anthony
the 2 guys ya know are named JR Smith and PG Raymond Felton.

Woodson earlier in season (Dec. 2013) when NYK began stumbling a quote "We'll I'll tell u guys media I wish JR and Raymond Felton
was here, we'd be fine". PROBLEMO#1. You going to Annoit Raymond Felton and JR Smith 2 Knicks whom privatedly disrespect the
coach, disrupted Knicks scheme both On /court and off court with their inability to play basketball but was rewarded BIG Time minutes
behind Carmelo Anthony.

Lets also talk about a coach 2nd quote in MSG infamous post-game "We'll fellas I been ya know coachin' in league for a long time &
as far as this home loss Its never my job Or Its not up to me to motivate these guys coming into the game being played"!
OH REALLY WOODSON ? eh?

Lets talk bout' another coach Woodson quote "We'll last time I checked the champs Miami Heat won their 1st NBA title with LBJ &
last time checked Miami led NBA in three(3) Point shots/makes to win NBA Title!". So Woodson system wants to win NBA title
with 3-point shots and his Knick 2014 team was near BOTTOM in three(3) points which coach Woodson ignored. JR record attempts/3's
isn't an accident!

Livinglegend this is a NBA Coach you're stating has a system ? in NBA ? 54 win team ?

Ok back to Woodson again.
The ineffective defensive frowner Tyson Chandler begins complaining privately about things needing changing, then publicly
on the woes "switching defense" and we here all this more than once!from Chandler. Knicks fans when Tyson is right we're in
good spot to win & when Tyson is Not right (disinterested) We stink defensively as most of season showed. I could care less
for Tyson Chandler right now but if something as "switching defense" isnt working for a team not noted for D' at 2013/2014 outset
maybe things needed changing from a coach whom is in charge of his team's defense. So Chandler gripes had a point.

Now we come to Melo Anthony whom we see off & on and off & on support of Woodson, however when a Melo 'dig' comes at Woody
its subtle. Like Melo at end of game screaming to coach about "What play are we running ?" Doesn't sound like after awhile
Melo was all about ISO-Melo , ISO-JR.

Now finally Amare putting a stake yesterday in Coach Woodson , Stout says "We didnt buy into game plan schemes whether Defensively
OR Offensively".

Amare statements are most telling & DJ gives him a pass cause Amare been playing his A_ss off from about Dec.2013 to season end
April 2014. HE may have not got right to put dirt on Woodson at end of season BUT Stoudemire said alot about team not buying
into things which let to season collapse. Amare earned right to speak this time.

Why?
Well Tyson won a ring, Amare has done few things in NBA of prominence with the Phoenix Suns, and 1st yr nearly MVP candidate with
Amare's great play before Melo arrival after trade. All Stoudemire, and Tyson and Melo remarks tells you that several of teams
best players at some point (not Tyson in 2014) lost respect for Coach Mike Woodson preference of JR Smith, of Raymond Felton &
likely disrespect of Iman Shumpert by Woodson & Knick Management to Shumpert whom tried to be a Knick through his problems.

All in all you alienate few guys whom could have been more leaders BUT Mike Woodson forgot to listen to them a bit, cause Woodson
is as stubborn as any NY NBA Knick coach ever had. And Now Mr Woodson is plea to media (whom he calls 'you guys') for his Knick
job being given another chance.

Mike Woodson lost the team, didnt have care to change his ways.
Mike "Its one me" but never EVER EVER Showed good Knick fans he had a plan, to pull knicks out of abysss.
You're better leaders (Melo, Ty, Amare) was screaming for Change/ new plans and plays ! Again Mr Stoudemire & Mr Melo, Mr Tyson
did few things more in NBA than JR and Raymond Felton ever done in this season.

But MR. Woodson rather worry bout JR Smith being on court tying shoelaces and availability of JR to shoot Knicks to wins!
and as far as PG play & marital woes of Raymond Felton these 2 Knicks germs got more respect than Amare Stout period!


If you OR me without experience as coach say "Hey how about getting me a rebound ?" or "A good pass", or simple things
in pro basketball to establish ROLES simple F$($&$%L_ucking) ROLES among any of his roster players, such as Aldrich, Murrey,
Iman Shumpert and on and on .. Knicks would have some IDENTITY of something they did Pretty well OR near top of NBA East with
other than the no. of sh_itting 3-point shots hoisted up by 12 man roster that Michael Woodson craves as pro game plan.

WOODSON game plan:
1. 3 point shots made/takes
2. ISO-Melo, ISO JR

This is a coach whom had rep as Defensive NBA Guru, Oh really ? REALLY ?
Woodson the only pro coach whom team could lose game after giving up 108 points then say in post gm. comments
"Well I think out defense was good, we needed to be better on offense!" No mention on stops.

This is a coach whom I think is a nice guy away from pro hoops, however Gunsewing is 150% correct that Mike Woodson wont get
a NBA Lead head coach job anytime soon! He did well 1 yr for NY thanks Mr Woodson but Tired of folks sticking up for this guy
like he deserves NO blame in big picture of things, is reason why he is no longer a topic next season in Knick-land!
Amen, thank god, amen...

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
IronWillGiroud
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4/18/2014  2:46 AM
And again, Amar'e just needs to shut the hell up.

This guy is quick with his words and way too slow with his brains.

He's outspoken without anything to back it up.

Woody sucks, we all know this, and it's not necessary for Amar'e to pour fuel on the embers of a sad, dying, weak little flame.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
Amare confirms team mutiny against Michael Woodson

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