nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Maybe if we had a coach that had a system in place to include more ball and player movement Melo wouldn't be able to jack so many shots even if he wanted to. This was a case of a star player who wants to score and a coach not good enough nor talented enough to find a way to say no to that star but convince him that his plan for the rest of the team would work. Since the team was playing so bad it just fed into Melo feeling he needed to do more.

Also remember that part of Melo's injury is likely due to his rebounding and put backs on which he receives most of the hard hits. If he was only jacking jumpers there is almost no damage done doing that. It's the more rugged part of his game that is likely to be the cause of his injuries. I would love to see Melo in a Triangle offense where he could get a lot more assists and help his teammates to score more easy baskets.

I think it is also a case of teammates not being good enough and one guy having to do too much. Not sure why management never addressed the horrible guard play but there rarely was another scoring threat on the floor with melo. I do agree that the triangle should help and with a system and different teammates melo shouldn't have to take the beating he did this year.

uuhhhh he's been playing the vaunted "bullyball" by his own choice his entire career. not sure what that has to do with his teammates, superior, inferior or otherwise. please... do try to wriggle your way out of that. lets avoid painting him as a martyred hero. he has never been a crafty player and now it has caught up with him. time to give him the heave-ho if he doesn't settle on 12-14 per. that's all the knicks should do with him or tell him "thank you so much you've meant a great deal to james dolan and his fellow basketball ignorami"

I don't really think I understand where you're coming from on this. Melo is without a doubt one of the most versatile scorers in the league and capable of going off at any moment. The real problem this year and in many years is the rest of the players on the team. He's not Bird, Jordan or Lebron, so he's a BUM? We need a system for the rest of the team more than for the star of the team. Getting a team around him and a system that helps them excel will only enhance what Melo brings to the table. We only need just a small improvement in the roster not a total turnover as some seem to think. More important is better leadership, coaching and smart front office moves. Melo isn't our problem.

he came here in such a manner that we compensated him as though he was on the level of players you mentioned. look i know you are trying to make a point but there is just no getting around the fact that he was paid too much and too much was given up for him for this to ever have worked out. you can't destroy 3 years of another plan and expect to recover.

i know where you're going with this-- get melo to stay and run him in the triangle. hope that a real culture can be installed, surround him with high character, hard working guys etc. etc. nice pipe dream even at 12-14 million per but he should be the help not the one being helped!!!!

OasisBU wrote:I believe that torn labrums do not heal - having a torn labrum myself in my right shoulder and having undergone extensive PT as well as seeing multiple dr's.

His pain level will go down with time but the tear will never heal because it's cartalidge and that does not grow back.

A torn labrum makes it more likely you will get a shoulder dislocation and ultimately tear the rotator cuff. As far as surgery on a torn labrum goes, I have heard it is a pretty unproven procedure so it is risky. That being said, a lot of weight lifters get it done and are fine but I have read horror stories too.

Bottom line is we already knew that Melo was not a $30 million per year guy and this just adds fuel to the fire. He will become the next H20/Stat with bum shoulders. Maybe not in the first or second year or the contract, but by the end of it he will be way overpaid and be an albatross contract holding the team back. We have already played this record multiple times so I would like to see the Knicks approach this more intelligently.

And people thought I was crazy for suggesting this literally minutes before the news broke on his shoulder. Remember I am always right

He doesn't want surgery because it will forever alter his shot

First he will sign for $30mil per than have the surgery and we are left with 5yrs $130mil for an overpaid role player 40% shooter

Carmelo Anthony averaged 27.4 points and a career-high 8.1 rebounds this season. We haven't seen those numbers in over a decade. Shaquille O'Neal was the last player to average at least 27 points and 8 boards, doing so in 2002-03 (27.5 PPG, 11.1 RPG).

gunsnewing wrote:27 & 8 on a 30win team doesn't really mean much

The team stinks... kinda been over that ad nauseum. This guy played through pain and was one of the most productive players in decades.

You can pound advanced stats all day, but there is one that cant be argued:
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314NYK.HTM

When Melo is on the floor the Knicks are +
When Melo sits the Knicks are not only negative, they are terrible

Go look at the #s.
http://www.82games.com/1314/13NYK11.HTM
Melo doest defend? Yet the Knicks defense is better when he's on the floor. By alot
Melo chucks? Knicks FG% is better when he's on the floor.
Look at Melo's opponents...
Melo outrebounds his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo out passes (assists) his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo draws more fouls and commits fewer than his opponents whether he's at SF or PF

Guns... he had a great season, and his value to the team shows up in the #s. The reason Woodson played him so much, wrong as it may have been was because when Melo was off the floor the game would get away. Hard to blame a guy fighting for his job for that. Im not defending Woodson's lousy coaching. Im just saying there is some easy to see cause and effect here.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:yikes he's got shoulders broken down like a 50-year old man. that's damaged goods on an nba level. hooray for bullyball it has really paid off, right melo? time to get rid of him is now, while there are still takers.

thank goodness for this report now it should make it easier for jackson to play hardball-- 12-14 million and if you must, hold your nose and pay him a bunch more next year and then far less when it comes time to pick up a free agent. ronron has been insisting on this, i believe-- or let him go.

that way, either way, knicks win. nobody should take issue with this approach but i am sure some intrepid but perhaps foolhardy soul will try....

nice to see your happy a guy got hurt. Class act buddy... class act

where in my post do you see me rejoicing he got hurt. that's not my thing. we paid too much for him already and now it is clear he is breaking down. do you have a problem with the knicks paying him 12-14 million?

or do you just have problems?

Your right.. you didnt rejoice. "Thank goodness" you didnt. Take TFK's underwear out of your mouth.. you may find that salty bitter taste in your mouth go away.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:27 & 8 on a 30win team doesn't really mean much

first losing season in his career... its a one off. Folks complained he was an average rebounder. That improved. Folks say his FG%s stink, that improved.

The team stinks... kinda been over that ad nauseum. This guy played through pain and was one of the most productive players in decades.

You can pound advanced stats all day, but there is one that cant be argued:
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314NYK.HTM

When Melo is on the floor the Knicks are +
When Melo sits the Knicks are not only negative, they are terrible

Go look at the #s.
http://www.82games.com/1314/13NYK11.HTM
Melo doest defend? Yet the Knicks defense is better when he's on the floor. By alot
Melo chucks? Knicks FG% is better when he's on the floor.
Look at Melo's opponents...
Melo outrebounds his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo out passes (assists) his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo draws more fouls and commits fewer than his opponents whether he's at SF or PF

Guns... he had a great season, and his value to the team shows up in the #s. The reason Woodson played him so much, wrong as it may have been was because when Melo was off the floor the game would get away. Hard to blame a guy fighting for his job for that. Im not defending Woodson's lousy coaching. Im just saying there is some easy to see cause and effect here.

+1
And Woody as much as said he plays Melo when Melo says to play Melo.

The haters are busy grinding away at those numbers, fish. Can you hear it?

"Usage Rate!!! Usage Rate!!!"

"Contract Year!!! Contract Year!!!"

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:27 & 8 on a 30win team doesn't really mean much

first losing season in his career... its a one off. Folks complained he was an average rebounder. That improved. Folks say his FG%s stink, that improved.

The team stinks... kinda been over that ad nauseum. This guy played through pain and was one of the most productive players in decades.

You can pound advanced stats all day, but there is one that cant be argued:
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314NYK.HTM

When Melo is on the floor the Knicks are +
When Melo sits the Knicks are not only negative, they are terrible

Go look at the #s.
http://www.82games.com/1314/13NYK11.HTM
Melo doest defend? Yet the Knicks defense is better when he's on the floor. By alot
Melo chucks? Knicks FG% is better when he's on the floor.
Look at Melo's opponents...
Melo outrebounds his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo out passes (assists) his opponents whether he's at SF or PF
Melo draws more fouls and commits fewer than his opponents whether he's at SF or PF

Guns... he had a great season, and his value to the team shows up in the #s. The reason Woodson played him so much, wrong as it may have been was because when Melo was off the floor the game would get away. Hard to blame a guy fighting for his job for that. Im not defending Woodson's lousy coaching. Im just saying there is some easy to see cause and effect here.

+ 1,000000.........Great Post!!!!