NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Boy did I hate Antwan Walker! Horrible chucker.

You want to chance the future on Josh Smith? That's fine. I don't.

"Chanc(ing) the future" is the only real option we have to improve this team. But with great risk comes great reward.

Well ... at least we can rest assured that this will never happen.

So glad we no more have the management that would make this type of move.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Boy did I hate Antwan Walker! Horrible chucker.

You want to chance the future on Josh Smith? That's fine. I don't.

"Chanc(ing) the future" is the only real option we have to improve this team. But with great risk comes great reward.

Well ... at least we can rest assured that this will never happen.

So glad we no more have the management that would make this type of move.

That was never the point of my post. I was trying to illustrate the need to gamble, if we really intend to improve the team AND keep Melo. Considering that Phil Jackson has no track record and his staff is composed entirely of holdover executives, you can't definitively speculate on anything about what they would or would not do.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Boy did I hate Antwan Walker! Horrible chucker.

You want to chance the future on Josh Smith? That's fine. I don't.

"Chanc(ing) the future" is the only real option we have to improve this team. But with great risk comes great reward.

Well ... at least we can rest assured that this will never happen.

So glad we no more have the management that would make this type of move.

That was never the point of the post.

There is no point in arguing this since we are so far apart in every aspect.

You want to mortgage the future on a guy that I think is awful.

Not much to debate.

Again, the purpose of the post was to illustrate that we need to gamble on players if we intend to improve the team and retain Melo. This 2015 plan that people are so enarmored with is likely to fail as it did for us in 2010 and has for every team not named the Heat. You can't build a team by relying on just trades or just draft picks or just cap space.

And as I mentioned before, you have no idea what the current management will do because Phil has no track record and his underlings are all holdovers that you think would make a deal for a guy like Josh Smith.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Boy did I hate Antwan Walker! Horrible chucker.

You want to chance the future on Josh Smith? That's fine. I don't.

"Chanc(ing) the future" is the only real option we have to improve this team. But with great risk comes great reward.

Well ... at least we can rest assured that this will never happen.

So glad we no more have the management that would make this type of move.

That was never the point of the post.

There is no point in arguing this since we are so far apart in every aspect.

You want to mortgage the future on a guy that I think is awful.

Not much to debate.

Again, the purpose of the post was to illustrate that we need to gamble on players if we intend to improve the team and retain Melo. This 2015 plan that people are so enarmored with is likely to fail as it did for us in 2010 and has for every team not named the Heat. You can't build a team by relying on just trades or just draft picks or just cap space.

And as I mentioned before, you have no idea what the current management will do because Phil has no track record and his underlings are all holdovers that you think would make a deal for a guy like Josh Smith.

You're right. I don't know what Phil will do but my assumption is that there is no chance that he would make such a (terrible) move.

I'm sure.

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I totally agree with you Papabear. That Celtics and Lakers deal for Gasol were deal made in cahoots. It was friends helping their old teams out. McHale and West that is why I find NBA to be despicable on many levels. Let's not forget the super friends in Miami.

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

We know Dolan made the Melo deal, but sorry....the gm's made the others.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you look at the trades we made, they all have a distinct flavor of desperation. Considering the different team-building styles of the GM's we've had, one would think that there would be a common denominator in it all (enter Dolan). I mean, do you really see a guy as conservative and risk-averse as Donnie Walsh taking a chance on Amar'e Stoudemire? Do you really see a guy like Glen Grunwald betting the farm on Andrea Bargnani?

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

We know Dolan made the Melo deal, but sorry....the gm's made the others.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you look at the trades we made, they all have a distinct flavor of desperation. Considering the different team-building styles of the GM's we've had, one would think that there would be a common denominator in it all (enter Dolan). I mean, do you really see a guy as conservative and risk-averse as Donnie Walsh taking a chance on Amar'e Stoudemire? Do you really see a guy like Glen Grunwald betting the farm on Andrea Bargnani?

Thats combined with losing T-mac for nothing, and trading Marcus Camby for a much older Oakley.

Walsh gets alot credit for the Pacers and he should back then, but his norm is team building, not trades, and he made awful trades every time he pulled the trigger, and thats on top of hiring D'antoni and self admitted bad drafting.

knickscity wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

We know Dolan made the Melo deal, but sorry....the gm's made the others.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you look at the trades we made, they all have a distinct flavor of desperation. Considering the different team-building styles of the GM's we've had, one would think that there would be a common denominator in it all (enter Dolan). I mean, do you really see a guy as conservative and risk-averse as Donnie Walsh taking a chance on Amar'e Stoudemire? Do you really see a guy like Glen Grunwald betting the farm on Andrea Bargnani?

Actually I do.....I definitely recall Grunwald trading the Raptors starting center in Antoni Davis, which the coach at the time pubicly complained about. this was with the raptors around the .500 mark in the year he was later fired.

Thats combined with losing T-mac for nothing, and trading Marcus Camby for a much older Oakley.

Walsh gets alot credit for the Pacers and he should back then, but his norm is team building, not trades, and he made awful trades every time he pulled the trigger, and thats on top of hiring D'antoni and self admitted bad drafting.

Grunwald got Jalen Rose, who had been playing like an all-star, and Donyell Marshall, who was still a double-double threat that could hit the 3, for Antonio Davis. That's not an act of desperation.

Losing McGrady isn't an act of desperation either. If anything, it is a cautionary story about being deliberate. Meanwhile, trading Camby for Oakley was widely considered to be a good move for the Raptors at the time. They needed veteran leadership and consistent play on a young team looking to make the next step. It wasn't until the playoffs of that year that Marcus even appeared on radar.

knickscity wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

We know Dolan made the Melo deal, but sorry....the gm's made the others.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you look at the trades we made, they all have a distinct flavor of desperation. Considering the different team-building styles of the GM's we've had, one would think that there would be a common denominator in it all (enter Dolan). I mean, do you really see a guy as conservative and risk-averse as Donnie Walsh taking a chance on Amar'e Stoudemire? Do you really see a guy like Glen Grunwald betting the farm on Andrea Bargnani?

Actually I do.....I definitely recall Grunwald trading the Raptors starting center in Antoni Davis, which the coach at the time pubicly complained about. this was with the raptors around the .500 mark in the year he was later fired.

Thats combined with losing T-mac for nothing, and trading Marcus Camby for a much older Oakley.

Walsh gets alot credit for the Pacers and he should back then, but his norm is team building, not trades, and he made awful trades every time he pulled the trigger, and thats on top of hiring D'antoni and self admitted bad drafting.

Grunwald got Jalen Rose, who had been playing like an all-star, and Donyell Marshall, who was still a double-double threat that could hit the 3, for Antonio Davis. That's not an act of desperation.

Losing McGrady isn't an act of desperation either. If anything, it is a cautionary story about being deliberate. Meanwhile, trading Camby for Oakley was widely considered to be a good move for the Raptors at the time. They needed veteran leadership and consistent play on a young team looking to make the next step. It wasn't until the playoffs of that year that Marcus even appeared on radar.

You're using desperation, I'm saying Dolan didnt make or influence any deal but the melo one.

Why break up a .500 team that even the coach was pissed that he did it?

Grunwald got fired from the raptors that same season, just like this team....that trade was dumb, so was acquiring Bargnani amongst others.

i dont care for Dolan, but to think he influneced some some bad GM'ing is ridiculous.

unless you heard him say that he "willingly and gratefully" ceded control of the team to any of the gms under his watch, you have to assume he influenced the approach that his gms took. take the jeremy lin fiasco for example. you don't think dolan was involved?

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nobody hates us. Teams make trades because they want to improve their own team, not because they feel like helping out another team. The reason we lose so many trades is because we have a stupid, ****ing owner who's never had to work a day in his ****ing life and doesn't know what the **** he's doing. Dolan's made it very clear over the last 15 years that he'll pretty much cave on any trade demand. That's not other teams' faults that's Dolan's.

We know Dolan made the Melo deal, but sorry....the gm's made the others.

Dolan didnt trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry and an expiring T-mac.....the gm's did. dolan didnt ship out all-star David Lee for a dude who never played (Kelenna) and a guy who was made of glass (Turiaf) who we wound up having to pay his salary for the other team just top move him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you look at the trades we made, they all have a distinct flavor of desperation. Considering the different team-building styles of the GM's we've had, one would think that there would be a common denominator in it all (enter Dolan). I mean, do you really see a guy as conservative and risk-averse as Donnie Walsh taking a chance on Amar'e Stoudemire? Do you really see a guy like Glen Grunwald betting the farm on Andrea Bargnani?

Actually I do.....I definitely recall Grunwald trading the Raptors starting center in Antoni Davis, which the coach at the time pubicly complained about. this was with the raptors around the .500 mark in the year he was later fired.

Thats combined with losing T-mac for nothing, and trading Marcus Camby for a much older Oakley.

Walsh gets alot credit for the Pacers and he should back then, but his norm is team building, not trades, and he made awful trades every time he pulled the trigger, and thats on top of hiring D'antoni and self admitted bad drafting.

Grunwald got Jalen Rose, who had been playing like an all-star, and Donyell Marshall, who was still a double-double threat that could hit the 3, for Antonio Davis. That's not an act of desperation.

Losing McGrady isn't an act of desperation either. If anything, it is a cautionary story about being deliberate. Meanwhile, trading Camby for Oakley was widely considered to be a good move for the Raptors at the time. They needed veteran leadership and consistent play on a young team looking to make the next step. It wasn't until the playoffs of that year that Marcus even appeared on radar.

You're using desperation, I'm saying Dolan didnt make or influence any deal but the melo one.

Why break up a .500 team that even the coach was pissed that he did it?

Grunwald got fired from the raptors that same season, just like this team....that trade was dumb, so was acquiring Bargnani amongst others.

i dont care for Dolan, but to think he influneced some some bad GM'ing is ridiculous.

unless you heard him say that he "willingly and gratefully" ceded control of the team to any of the gms under his watch, you have to assume he influenced the approach that his gms took. take the jeremy lin fiasco for example. you don't think dolan was involved?

You can say the same thing about any owner/gm.