[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Was Carmelo trade awash?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 16 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
toad
Posts: 20210
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/14/2012
Member: #4338
4/8/2014  10:32 AM
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?

Stop it. Team K was already going to the playoffs the year PlayerA came in. I think we played .500 after the trade. Team K with Player A isn't going to make the playoffs every year unless you're going to conveniently ignore this year's debacle. Team D is getting a lotto pick thanks to the trade. They're not regretting the trade at all.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/8/2014  10:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/8/2014  10:34 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Not in the playoffs. In the playoffs. I'm not glorifying anything, I'm defining "winning" as "making the playoffs" and "losing" as being in the lottery. It's not really that difficult. Your rookies haven't done anything great, our record with picks is legendarily abominable (Fred Weiss says HI!) and Lebron didn't want our cap space. And KD ain't coming here, either.

Maybe the thread should be re-titled "Was Carmelo a Wash for Denver?".

And then moved to the Off-Topic forum.

And then locked.

So you're defining winning as being a top 20 (out of 30) NBA teams! We shouldn't have to have given up picks or sacrificed the cap to achieve that.
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
4/8/2014  10:56 AM
Nalod wrote:Record wise its a wash. The proof is in the records.

The pick will be very telling.

Was it worth it? Moving right along.............

I think we payed a bit too much. Not that Moz would have tipped the scales, but its just a thought.
Denver got more assets. Shy Wilson and Gallo's injury took them off the court this season.

Bottom line was Melo wanted out and Knicks wanted a bankable face of a franchise.

Nalod said at the time you gotta give it 5 years to see. In two years we'll know.

Melo walks the wash goes away in an instant and we lose. Melo gets Zenitized and knicks contend with him rostered we get favorable.
Denver drafts a player that proves to be a cornerstone (won't know for two years perhaps) then we lose.

Could not agree more.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
4/8/2014  10:56 AM
Nalod wrote:Record wise its a wash. The proof is in the records.

The pick will be very telling.

Was it worth it? Moving right along.............

I think we payed a bit too much. Not that Moz would have tipped the scales, but its just a thought.
Denver got more assets. Shy Wilson and Gallo's injury took them off the court this season.

Bottom line was Melo wanted out and Knicks wanted a bankable face of a franchise.

Nalod said at the time you gotta give it 5 years to see. In two years we'll know.

Melo walks the wash goes away in an instant and we lose. Melo gets Zenitized and knicks contend with him rostered we get favorable.
Denver drafts a player that proves to be a cornerstone (won't know for two years perhaps) then we lose.

Could not agree more.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
4/8/2014  10:56 AM
You have to factor in how many mind numbing melo trade posts and threads there have been since the trade- they've damn near ruined these boards!
TeamBall
Posts: 24343
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/13/2012
Member: #4386
4/8/2014  10:57 AM
Nalod wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?

But without attractive assets Denver does not make a deal with us, so basically its not like Melo "Turned it around" on his own. He was a talent infusion but there was a talant upgrade in progress.

Its hard to quantify Melo alone as the sole reason for our play the last few years. No roster is static so this gets harder and harder.


Without melo naming NY as his preferred destination (before all the nets bs he put on us), NY isn't even in play. This had to do with Melo requesting ny more than those "assets"
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/8/2014  11:01 AM
Nalod wrote:Record wise its a wash. The proof is in the records.

But both teams got worse. Why not call it a loss rather than a wash for both teams?
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
4/8/2014  11:01 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Curious to have seen the outcome of the trade if we did not sign Amare the year before or amnesty CB/Sign Tyson the year after.

And, that we would have actually surrounded the trade with good moves / signings and tried to build a tight couple cohesive unit with Melo somewhere in the mix.

Not saying that I would still make the move or that it was a good signings but its hard to judge in a vacuum.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/8/2014  11:07 AM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Curious to have seen the outcome of the trade if we did not sign Amare the year before or amnesty CB/Sign Tyson the year after.

And, that we would have actually surrounded the trade with good moves / signings and tried to build a tight couple cohesive unit with Melo somewhere in the mix.

Not saying that I would still make the move or that it was a good signings but its hard to judge in a vacuum.


Oh, I'm just playing along with the spirit of the thread. I wouldn't judge a trade based on the team's W-L record. I might give a tiny amount of weight to that but far too many factors besides any one trade affect the record.
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
4/8/2014  11:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/8/2014  1:04 PM
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?

Stop it. Team K was already going to the playoffs the year PlayerA came in. I think we played .500 after the trade. Team K with Player A isn't going to make the playoffs every year unless you're going to conveniently ignore this year's debacle. Team D is getting a lotto pick thanks to the trade. They're not regretting the trade at all.

Oh please, wake up. We were going to the playoffs with a broken down Stat and Nate Robinson? Really? Gallo on the IR and Wilson and Moz were going to drag you to the playoffs like they've done with Denver? Where was Stat the second half after the trade?

So Team D is happy to have missed the playoffs while we went to the second round? I'll conveniently ignore going down to the wire this season and missing the playoffs while you ignore that they never made it out of the first round. And Team D is also very happy they had to wait 4 years to get a lottery pick while missing the playoffs?
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/8/2014  11:57 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Not in the playoffs. In the playoffs. I'm not glorifying anything, I'm defining "winning" as "making the playoffs" and "losing" as being in the lottery. It's not really that difficult. Your rookies haven't done anything great, our record with picks is legendarily abominable (Fred Weiss says HI!) and Lebron didn't want our cap space. And KD ain't coming here, either.

Maybe the thread should be re-titled "Was Carmelo a Wash for Denver?".

And then moved to the Off-Topic forum.

And then locked.

those draft picks mean nada if you don't know what the hell your doing which the knicks don't.

ES
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
4/8/2014  12:10 PM
Melo is a damn good player. The Knicks don't have a system and that is the main problem with the Knicks not Melo. This year was an example that it doesn't matter if you have talent if there is no system it won't work. There has to be a system in place so all the players can be on the same page at all times. Especially when things get tough the players need to rely on system. The Knicks lost so many close games due to lack of system. An execution style of play has to be implemented. That's the only way to understand if someone is doing their job. It's easier to identify a missed assignment and easier to point out to the player also. Watching final four and Wisconsin didn't have overwhelming talent but their execution took them all the way to final four.
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
4/8/2014  12:16 PM
Vmart wrote:Melo is a damn good player. The Knicks don't have a system and that is the main problem with the Knicks not Melo. This year was an example that it doesn't matter if you have talent if there is no system it won't work. There has to be a system in place so all the players can be on the same page at all times. Especially when things get tough the players need to rely on system. The Knicks lost so many close games due to lack of system. An execution style of play has to be implemented. That's the only way to understand if someone is doing their job. It's easier to identify a missed assignment and easier to point out to the player also. Watching final four and Wisconsin didn't have overwhelming talent but their execution took them all the way to final four.

And how do you win without talented guards? Or better yet with the worst back court in the league?

Melo is not good enough to cover up that stink.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
4/8/2014  1:09 PM
Nalod wrote:Record wise its a wash. The proof is in the records.

The pick will be very telling.

Was it worth it? Moving right along.............

I think we payed a bit too much. Not that Moz would have tipped the scales, but its just a thought.
Denver got more assets. Shy Wilson and Gallo's injury took them off the court this season.

Bottom line was Melo wanted out and Knicks wanted a bankable face of a franchise.

Nalod said at the time you gotta give it 5 years to see. In two years we'll know.

Melo walks the wash goes away in an instant and we lose. Melo gets Zenitized and knicks contend with him rostered we get favorable.
Denver drafts a player that proves to be a cornerstone (won't know for two years perhaps) then we lose.

Chew on this..
Denver drafts a stud with our pick
Melo misses part of next year rehabbing his offseason surgery

Still a wash?
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
4/8/2014  1:28 PM
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


the first round of the playoffs contains at least 3 junior varsity teams every season in each conference. getting to the first round is still a junior varsity showcase and a warmup round for the varsity teams, ie the legit contenders.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
4/8/2014  1:30 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:Record wise its a wash. The proof is in the records.

The pick will be very telling.

Was it worth it? Moving right along.............

I think we payed a bit too much. Not that Moz would have tipped the scales, but its just a thought.
Denver got more assets. Shy Wilson and Gallo's injury took them off the court this season.

Bottom line was Melo wanted out and Knicks wanted a bankable face of a franchise.

Nalod said at the time you gotta give it 5 years to see. In two years we'll know.

Melo walks the wash goes away in an instant and we lose. Melo gets Zenitized and knicks contend with him rostered we get favorable.
Denver drafts a player that proves to be a cornerstone (won't know for two years perhaps) then we lose.

Chew on this..
Denver drafts a stud with our pick
Melo misses part of next year rehabbing his offseason surgery

Still a wash?


Or try this on:

Denver still fails to get out of the first round, and we sign their stud to the max two years later.
Melo agrees to take a lot less to stay.
We go on to the ECF.

Still awash in Melohate?
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
4/8/2014  1:33 PM
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?


the first round of the playoffs contains at least 3 junior varsity teams every season in each conference. getting to the first round is still a junior varsity showcase and a warmup round for the varsity teams, ie the legit contenders.

20 pages, here we come!

So not making the playoffs is now no different than making the playoffs. Check.
And last year we were legit contenders! Check!

Here moveth the bar.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/8/2014  1:36 PM
arkrud wrote:With him or without him... same sht. Is he a 0 impact player?

New York 33-45
DEnver 33-44

Denver was missing 2 starters for an entire season, and lawson for quite a bit of the season as well..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/8/2014  1:37 PM
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Yes, definitely, because we were so much better off before Melo got here. Shandon Anderson = Carmelo Anthony...same sht.

And for the ten billionth post, the assets we gave up have obviously pushed Denver to the point where 4 years later they are positioned to make a serious run at a chip, right? Or maybe they just plan on making the playoffs someday?

Gallo - IR, ummm, IR, but very, very efficient and economical IR player.
Moz - 2 good highlight games per season; the neverending project player, be patient, it will happen.
Mayor - mostly invisible middle of the road bench player
Draft picks - Iggy and Faried and what else? Of course, the whole plan of ridding Denver of Melo-noma was the 2015 lottery!!!
3 million - Dolan spends that on guitar strings each year.


Cue tkf with the "Denver's in a better spot then we are! I like the way that team is run! The Western Conference is where real NBA basketball is played! Melo couldn't carry Gallo's jockstrap!"

What's our record this year again?

And what was our record for the years before we got CancerMelo? And how many times did Denver miss the playoffs with Melo?

how about the year in which we got him. I could care less about 10 years before that.. because those players were long gone... the year we traded for carmelo we were 28-26, much better than we are now..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
4/8/2014  1:38 PM
tkf - I know this must have been asked before, but do you and dktf live near each other? Or work for the same company?

And New York was missing a few starters too. Does that work for us?
Page 2 of 16 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Was Carmelo trade awash?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy