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Was Carmelo trade awash?
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mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

4/18/2014  12:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/18/2014  12:44 PM
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own capology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
4/18/2014  12:54 PM
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

4/18/2014  1:12 PM
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
TeamBall
Posts: 24343
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/13/2012
Member: #4386

4/18/2014  3:50 PM
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
tkf wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:As a wise man once said recently, Melo gets you a billion dollar renovation. Pretty relevant.

Pretty much all he's been good for--a quick revenue boost for Dolan.

Yeah, I much preferred missing the playoffs and drafting the Fred Wiess's, Michael Beasley's and IR Gallo's of the world. And counting Cap space that Lebron and KD were never going to be interested in. I hated winning a division and getting to the second round for the first time in over a decade. Who needed a HOF level talent on the team when you could've spent your time watching Nate the Great shoot at the wrong basket. How I miss those 20-win seasons!

Tell me all about your wet dream about how a CP3-level talent was just dying to play with IR Stat, Gallo, Moz and Wilson. Or how we could've built patiently like other franchises like Toronto and Philly and Charlotte.

Apparently, in your wet dreams we win 36 games in a season. Superstar!

And apparently, you get woodys thinking that 29-win seasons and being out of the playoffs by February are better than this season? Yoots!

the key is, there is upside with young players you can build on.... right now what upside is there with these wannabe supastahs?????

in the end, if you lose, do it with a young roster full of cheap players.. not a bloated roster full of malcontent max cat losers..

So you prefer spending 5 or 6 seasons losing 50 or 59 games watching the "building" going on with the likes of:

Channing Frye
David Lee
Eddy Curry
Renaldo Balkman
Nate Robinson
Wilson Chandler
Mardy Collins
Toney Douglas
Gallo

As opposed to the last 4 seasons; am I capturing your key correctly?

Losing more games while young and cheap somehow makes you feel better?


I noticed that every time someone makes a critical comment about the current roster, you assume it means they liked Isiah's rosters. That's really twisted.

Seeing as how so many people oddly hate Melo because we traded some of the guys on that list for him, I'd say he's not exactly on the wrong track. He's just picking the wrong roster.

you make him sound like a ****ing princess looking for prince charming. he is a full-fledged ******* and guilty until proven innocent. are you a knick fan?!? sincere question!


First off, that's a dumb question. I love the Knicks enough to not make it my personal mission to come on this board and try to downplay any success they have while at the same time magnifying all their blunders - consistency be damned - just because I don't like ONE PLAYER on the team.

Second, calling him a "full-fledged *******" because you didn't like the trade is just going a little too far.

Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
4/18/2014  4:11 PM
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
tkf wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:As a wise man once said recently, Melo gets you a billion dollar renovation. Pretty relevant.

Pretty much all he's been good for--a quick revenue boost for Dolan.

Yeah, I much preferred missing the playoffs and drafting the Fred Wiess's, Michael Beasley's and IR Gallo's of the world. And counting Cap space that Lebron and KD were never going to be interested in. I hated winning a division and getting to the second round for the first time in over a decade. Who needed a HOF level talent on the team when you could've spent your time watching Nate the Great shoot at the wrong basket. How I miss those 20-win seasons!

Tell me all about your wet dream about how a CP3-level talent was just dying to play with IR Stat, Gallo, Moz and Wilson. Or how we could've built patiently like other franchises like Toronto and Philly and Charlotte.

Apparently, in your wet dreams we win 36 games in a season. Superstar!

And apparently, you get woodys thinking that 29-win seasons and being out of the playoffs by February are better than this season? Yoots!

the key is, there is upside with young players you can build on.... right now what upside is there with these wannabe supastahs?????

in the end, if you lose, do it with a young roster full of cheap players.. not a bloated roster full of malcontent max cat losers..

So you prefer spending 5 or 6 seasons losing 50 or 59 games watching the "building" going on with the likes of:

Channing Frye
David Lee
Eddy Curry
Renaldo Balkman
Nate Robinson
Wilson Chandler
Mardy Collins
Toney Douglas
Gallo

As opposed to the last 4 seasons; am I capturing your key correctly?

Losing more games while young and cheap somehow makes you feel better?


I noticed that every time someone makes a critical comment about the current roster, you assume it means they liked Isiah's rosters. That's really twisted.

Seeing as how so many people oddly hate Melo because we traded some of the guys on that list for him, I'd say he's not exactly on the wrong track. He's just picking the wrong roster.

you make him sound like a ****ing princess looking for prince charming. he is a full-fledged ******* and guilty until proven innocent. are you a knick fan?!? sincere question!


First off, that's a dumb question. I love the Knicks enough to not make it my personal mission to come on this board and try to downplay any success they have while at the same time magnifying all their blunders - consistency be damned - just because I don't like ONE PLAYER on the team.

Second, calling him a "full-fledged *******" because you didn't like the trade is just going a little too far.

what do you mean by "he's just picking the wrong roster"? you mean the one that his trade single-handedly destroyed, and then assumed could be rebuilt with quality players while melo was a knick? seriously? and when melo said that he knew all along that it would take several years for the team to be buily you were okay with that approach? what happened to the "win-now" edict that this trade put us on?!?

"win now" how soon we forget. the dude is a CLOWN

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
TeamBall
Posts: 24343
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/13/2012
Member: #4386

4/18/2014  4:25 PM
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
tkf wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
toad wrote:
jrodmc wrote:As a wise man once said recently, Melo gets you a billion dollar renovation. Pretty relevant.

Pretty much all he's been good for--a quick revenue boost for Dolan.

Yeah, I much preferred missing the playoffs and drafting the Fred Wiess's, Michael Beasley's and IR Gallo's of the world. And counting Cap space that Lebron and KD were never going to be interested in. I hated winning a division and getting to the second round for the first time in over a decade. Who needed a HOF level talent on the team when you could've spent your time watching Nate the Great shoot at the wrong basket. How I miss those 20-win seasons!

Tell me all about your wet dream about how a CP3-level talent was just dying to play with IR Stat, Gallo, Moz and Wilson. Or how we could've built patiently like other franchises like Toronto and Philly and Charlotte.

Apparently, in your wet dreams we win 36 games in a season. Superstar!

And apparently, you get woodys thinking that 29-win seasons and being out of the playoffs by February are better than this season? Yoots!

the key is, there is upside with young players you can build on.... right now what upside is there with these wannabe supastahs?????

in the end, if you lose, do it with a young roster full of cheap players.. not a bloated roster full of malcontent max cat losers..

So you prefer spending 5 or 6 seasons losing 50 or 59 games watching the "building" going on with the likes of:

Channing Frye
David Lee
Eddy Curry
Renaldo Balkman
Nate Robinson
Wilson Chandler
Mardy Collins
Toney Douglas
Gallo

As opposed to the last 4 seasons; am I capturing your key correctly?

Losing more games while young and cheap somehow makes you feel better?


I noticed that every time someone makes a critical comment about the current roster, you assume it means they liked Isiah's rosters. That's really twisted.

Seeing as how so many people oddly hate Melo because we traded some of the guys on that list for him, I'd say he's not exactly on the wrong track. He's just picking the wrong roster.

you make him sound like a ****ing princess looking for prince charming. he is a full-fledged ******* and guilty until proven innocent. are you a knick fan?!? sincere question!


First off, that's a dumb question. I love the Knicks enough to not make it my personal mission to come on this board and try to downplay any success they have while at the same time magnifying all their blunders - consistency be damned - just because I don't like ONE PLAYER on the team.

Second, calling him a "full-fledged *******" because you didn't like the trade is just going a little too far.

what do you mean by "he's just picking the wrong roster"? you mean the one that his trade single-handedly destroyed, and then assumed could be rebuilt with quality players while melo was a knick? seriously? and when melo said that he knew all along that it would take several years for the team to be buily you were okay with that approach? what happened to the "win-now" edict that this trade put us on?!?

"win now" how soon we forget. the dude is a CLOWN


Ooooooo DK I was talking about jrod. That roster of players he named weren't the ones we had before the Melo trade.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/19/2014  10:00 PM
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

4/19/2014  10:15 PM
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
Posts: 33942
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/23/2011
Member: #3538

4/19/2014  10:21 PM
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.


lol +1 bro
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/19/2014  10:29 PM
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/19/2014  10:30 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.


lol +1 bro

smh....you guys truly deserved this team, this year... lol

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
yellowboy90
Posts: 33942
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/23/2011
Member: #3538

4/19/2014  10:37 PM
tkf wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.


lol +1 bro

smh....you guys truly deserved this team, this year... lol


rofl. you poor misunderstood guy. You are the truest light on the board that sees all and knows all. lol.
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

4/19/2014  10:53 PM
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Emotional a bit?

I think that everyone can see that you are cloudy with your "hate colored glasses". Step back and try to take an external look at yourself.

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
4/19/2014  11:30 PM
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Emotional a bit?

I think that everyone can see that you are cloudy with your "hate colored glasses". Step back and try to take an external look at yourself.

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too.

I do not care if Melo can improve or not.
I want Knicks to improve with Melo or without.
Melo is just one of many MBA players.
He can fit or not fit into Knicks winning team and this may have little to do with him.
I think he was playing to his abilities and even better.This resulted in nothing special.
Is this his fault or somebody else is also irrelevant.
I want quality product with whatever payers. I have no attachment to any.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

4/19/2014  11:34 PM
arkrud wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Emotional a bit?

I think that everyone can see that you are cloudy with your "hate colored glasses". Step back and try to take an external look at yourself.

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too.

I do not care if Melo can improve or not.
I want Knicks to improve with Melo or without.
Melo is just one of many MBA players.
He can fit or not fit into Knicks winning team and this may have little to do with him.
I think he was playing to his abilities and even better.This resulted in nothing special.
Is this his fault or somebody else is also irrelevant.
I want quality product with whatever payers. I have no attachment to any.

completely agree.

I want my "hero" uncle phil to do what he thinks is best for the team. I have no attachments to any player on the team, not even the kids.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
markvmc
Posts: 21774
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2008
Member: #1797

4/20/2014  12:12 AM
arkrud wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Emotional a bit?

I think that everyone can see that you are cloudy with your "hate colored glasses". Step back and try to take an external look at yourself.

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too.

I do not care if Melo can improve or not.
I want Knicks to improve with Melo or without.
Melo is just one of many MBA players.
He can fit or not fit into Knicks winning team and this may have little to do with him.
I think he was playing to his abilities and even better.This resulted in nothing special.
Is this his fault or somebody else is also irrelevant.
I want quality product with whatever payers. I have no attachment to any.

Well said, Akrud; agree completely.

tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/20/2014  1:09 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
tkf wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.


lol +1 bro

smh....you guys truly deserved this team, this year... lol


rofl. you poor misunderstood guy. You are the truest light on the board that sees all and knows all. lol.

I know this... I said the knicks would suck, bargnani was a waste and I was dead on... do you find that funny? LOL

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/20/2014  1:12 AM
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
arkrud wrote:

Very successful athlete and businessman. Good citizen.
Not a leader. Not a good teammate. Not very smart bbal mind.
To win big he needs good coach, dominant and demanding leader(s) on the team, hard-nose GM to keep him in check.

I'd say he's a good team mate- a lot of his former teammates seem to be life long friends with him (K-Mart, Camby, JR, James White etc)- might be frustrating that he gets selfish with the ball and doesn't pass enough. I agree about him not being a leader, and needing a good coach and a leader on the team.

I agree with this AND ITS BALANCED!

Melo is a conceited and vain dumbo yet Amare who many of these same thoughtless posts(ers) are ok with him being a dumb as nails, no defense, no leader salbatross (salary albatross).

Melo is not a leader and he certainly chucks more than he should

BALANCE PLEASE!

Is that so much to ask? Logical balanced arguments?


DK is evaluating Melo as a player paid $23 mil per. He's already said he thinks Melo is worth $12 to 14 mil per. Obviously he recognizes many strengths Melo has. Is DK less balanced or does he just not feel the need to state the strengths that merit the $12 to 14 mil in every post?

its not about the 12-14 value tag. that is fine. I think its more but everyone has a right to perform their own apology.

it is nice that you come to his defense but his Melo arguments are far from balanced. I am sure that you know that and have not just read this post.

it is certainly far more balanced that TKF (which are just off the chart flawed) though he (tkf) likes associating himself with DK though they really have very little deep rooted philosophies that they agree on.

DK does not like chuckers so he does not like (Kobe, Iverson, Melo and alike). I respect that and I see the flaws that irk him in all these players. However, all these "clown", "narcissist", "doesn't care about winning", "all about the money" etc ... are fully bloated with bias and conjecture.

Bonn, you should be balanced too and feel free to call posters out when you disagree regardless of who they are and you alliances/history with them.

if these other guys were knicks i would be just as stringent in my critique.

So the fact that he is a knick your vision is blurred? To be balanced, maybe you should make believe he was on another team.

I don't see the vitriol for Amare and Tyson so I don't believe that its a knicks thing. I think that you need one guy to blame. This is a commonly exhibited (irrational) behavior.

if he were on another team i would not care at all-- i would simply say that he wasn't worth the money he was being paid and they made a big mistake gutting a nice little roster for him. i said much the same things leading up to the trade here.

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?
you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

you don't ever pay max money for a flawed player if you can avoid it. do you agree?

This is far more complicated than your simplification. What constitutes a max player? Durant, Lebron and Paul? Perhaps those guys are worth 30 percent more than the max? How about Harden? Do you pay him the max? Flawed players can get the max if the market determines that they are worth it (supply / demand). Kevin Love? Melo is not as flawed as you think/say. Especially the way he played on the Knicks.

you NEVER EVER trade for such a player. do you agree?

I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE

you NEVER EVER compound an already existing problem in the person of an already-on-the-team flawed player (stoudemire) by adding a redundant player instead of an upgrade at an actual position of need, which in this case was point guard. do you agree?

I think that you should/could make a MUCH better argument here against the signing of Tyson (which I don't here you make). They could have still have gotten an excellent PG if they did not do the dumb tyson move (and we all know how well Melo plays with a very good and efficient PG).

You should be placing your blame and angst on the HORRIBLE Amare signing and the equally bad Tyson move.

We gave up too much in the Melo trade, I think that most people believe that (especially if he walks for nothing) but what Amare and Tyson did to our flexibility over the last few years killed us more.

Blame the GM's and the rest of the brass but if you want to blame players, please blame the ones who did not perform and never shut up.

I can't believe I am reading that.... rofl..

He is so flawed as a knick, that had he not been playing for us, I might not have known how flawed he actually is..

After seeing him here over the past 3.5 years, i now see he is more flawed than ever...

stop with the lol's and rofl's, not sure what they add.

Melo certainly has flaws as do most players. When they play on your team the flaws are far more obvious. The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

LOL, rofl, LMAO..... don't tell me what to do... I laugh because you amuse me..

Most of us see his flaws and would like to see them addressed. We trust in Phil that if he believes that he fits in his puzzle then he will retain him.

dude is going on 14 seasons, you talk of him as if he is a 4 year player.. address his flaws.. coaches have tried.. this dude is what he is.. Phil is not a miracle worker.. I trust if Phil knows what he is doing that he jettisons this dude ASAP....

Listen to how you sound.. Hero worship, you are just like the others bro. You look for a savior, a hero... "we trust in Phil"...haha.. wow.... I hope Phil does the right thing, I know he will try and that is all I can ask for, but trusting in him?

The problem is that when you are too emotionally vested your vision becomes very blurred. If you see it or not, this is an obvious issue with your judgement.

honestly, you are the biggest doubling talking shyt talker on this forum...emotionally vested? you are talking like some starry eyed kid "I trust in phil".. talk about emotional.. don't sit here and pretend you know me. You tend to consistently misrepresent people's post around here, and I rather you not do that with me. If you are going to carry on a conversation with me, don't be a tool and intentionally misrepresent me as a poster... I have been very clear how I feel, I don't need you trying to play DR. Phil...

as far as a vision.. yes I have a , vision one of being a respected franchise, that runs in a way that I can be proud of as a fan, with players who are of high character as well as talent, players with integrity who know how to win..

I would hope that is a vision everyone shares in.. Not one that we latch on to saviors and ride them no matter how much they fail, how bad they are, how much integrity they lack, just because they are knicks, and we want to "believe"..

Emotional a bit?

I think that everyone can see that you are cloudy with your "hate colored glasses". Step back and try to take an external look at yourself.

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too.


dude all you need is the red wig and the big red nose and your act is complete.. stop wasting my time...

I think that Melo can improve and I believe that you can too

that ship has sailed.. he can improve somewhere else.. what I believe is the knicks can improve, once he is gone...You have no idea what I believe...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
4/20/2014  1:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2014  1:16 AM
Let's be real here? You anti Vogel guys would not trade places with Indiana? This is why conversations go in circles. It's ok to just be real once in a while. It won't change the outcome on the court. We are just fans
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/20/2014  1:18 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Let's be real here? You anti Vogel guys would not trade places with Indiana? This is why conversations go in circles. It's ok to just be real once in a while. It won't change the outcome on the court. We are just fans

they would trade coach, players, GM and ownership with the pacers.... I know I would.. I just want to win... and have something in place that will give me a chance to do so for many years....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Was Carmelo trade awash?

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