[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Forum exercise: so-called haters list Melo's strengths; fans list his weaknesses
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/5/2013  10:13 PM
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:Melo's strength is he is one of the best players in the league, and he has no weakness that hinders his strength.

OAN the thread is garbage, no one should have to pick a side, this really is nothing but a ploy to further alienate the fanbase of this board.

nobody is asking you to pick a side. there are many posters who are willing to list both his strengths and his weaknesses.

as i said earlier i am trying to push the reset button and create some good will.

maybe you will reconsider, along with the others listed below, who also seem reluctant or hell bent on maintaining the status quo:

nykmentality
misterearl
anji
supreme commander
papabear
nupe
anubisadl


You should have edited your thread title, you are clearly edging people to pick a side, and indicate what side they are on.

But it matters little I gave my strengths and weakness....nothing to reconsider, I did it in my post.

if you have nothing of actual value to add maybe it's better to not say anything. not a good look here.


I listed Melo's strength and weakness in my post...is that not what you asked?

So how exactly is this melo thread any different? If you disagree, you claim there is nothing to add.

What really is there to add, we all know what melo's strengths and weaknesses are, you just want to identify contingents.

Sorry bro, no go from me.

you're playing games. i'm cool with that.

to sum up you claim that he is one of the best players in the league with no significant weaknesses that prevent him from being one of the best players in the league. basically sound and fury signifying nothing.

this melo thread is different if you allow it to be so but if you and a few others are hell bent on maintaining the status quo then that behavior says a whole lot more about you than you want it to.

i stated the purpose of the thread but you insist you know the true motivation, ie to identify "contingents."

connect the dots, guy. your behavior only serves to draw a line in the sand in order that you may create or galvanize contingents you despair of.

as i said, you're playing games.

My take on this thread. I think you are baiting people. You tried this topic in another thread, no one responded and it got locked. I think you believe it gives you the right to call guys out and say they are not being 'objective' as you claim to be when they react to the thread.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
AUTOADVERT
NYKMentality
Posts: 21623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/12/2012
Member: #4385

2/5/2013  10:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2013  10:21 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:Melo's strength is he is one of the best players in the league, and he has no weakness that hinders his strength.

OAN the thread is garbage, no one should have to pick a side, this really is nothing but a ploy to further alienate the fanbase of this board.

nobody is asking you to pick a side. there are many posters who are willing to list both his strengths and his weaknesses.

as i said earlier i am trying to push the reset button and create some good will.

maybe you will reconsider, along with the others listed below, who also seem reluctant or hell bent on maintaining the status quo:

nykmentality
misterearl
anji
supreme commander
papabear
nupe
anubisadl


You should have edited your thread title, you are clearly edging people to pick a side, and indicate what side they are on.

But it matters little I gave my strengths and weakness....nothing to reconsider, I did it in my post.

if you have nothing of actual value to add maybe it's better to not say anything. not a good look here.


I listed Melo's strength and weakness in my post...is that not what you asked?

So how exactly is this melo thread any different? If you disagree, you claim there is nothing to add.

What really is there to add, we all know what melo's strengths and weaknesses are, you just want to identify contingents.

Sorry bro, no go from me.

you're playing games. i'm cool with that.

to sum up you claim that he is one of the best players in the league with no significant weaknesses that prevent him from being one of the best players in the league. basically sound and fury signifying nothing.

this melo thread is different if you allow it to be so but if you and a few others are hell bent on maintaining the status quo then that behavior says a whole lot more about you than you want it to.

i stated the purpose of the thread but you insist you know the true motivation, ie to identify "contingents."

connect the dots, guy. your behavior only serves to draw a line in the sand in order that you may create or galvanize contingents you despair of.

as i said, you're playing games.

My take on this thread. I think you are baiting people. You tried this topic in another thread, no one responded and it got locked. I think you believe it gives you the right to call guys out and say they are not being 'objective' as you claim to be when they react to the thread.

Yup. They can't take the fact that as a fan base, we're actually ENJOYING our greatest Knick since Patrick Ewing along with one of the greatest pure scorers this Knicks franchise has ever featured. So, they create a thread such as this one as the likes of TKF gets to bash Melo (once again).

"not a good defender at all and worst of all not motivated to defend
lacks poise in physical games or games in which his shot is off
not a really good passer for a guy who has the ball as much as he does
doesn't move without the ball much
bad shot selection
not a leader
still selfish
will play hard under his terms only
sub par court vision"

What a laughing stock joke this is.

28-11 during games in Which Melo has played. 28-11. First place of our Atlantic Division during only Melo's first full season as a Knick. Something in which Ewing could only do two times while our Knicks as a franchise has only won our Atlantic 4 times dating back to 1971. But yet, Melo's on the verge of leading us to our first Atlantic Division title during only his first full season as a Knick. And these Melo critics can't take the fact that we're ENJOYING his New York success.

knickscity
Posts: 24495
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/2/2012
Member: #4241
USA
2/5/2013  10:49 PM
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
knickscity wrote:Melo's strength is he is one of the best players in the league, and he has no weakness that hinders his strength.

OAN the thread is garbage, no one should have to pick a side, this really is nothing but a ploy to further alienate the fanbase of this board.

nobody is asking you to pick a side. there are many posters who are willing to list both his strengths and his weaknesses.

as i said earlier i am trying to push the reset button and create some good will.

maybe you will reconsider, along with the others listed below, who also seem reluctant or hell bent on maintaining the status quo:

nykmentality
misterearl
anji
supreme commander
papabear
nupe
anubisadl


You should have edited your thread title, you are clearly edging people to pick a side, and indicate what side they are on.

But it matters little I gave my strengths and weakness....nothing to reconsider, I did it in my post.

if you have nothing of actual value to add maybe it's better to not say anything. not a good look here.


I listed Melo's strength and weakness in my post...is that not what you asked?

So how exactly is this melo thread any different? If you disagree, you claim there is nothing to add.

What really is there to add, we all know what melo's strengths and weaknesses are, you just want to identify contingents.

Sorry bro, no go from me.

you're playing games. i'm cool with that.

to sum up you claim that he is one of the best players in the league with no significant weaknesses that prevent him from being one of the best players in the league. basically sound and fury signifying nothing.

this melo thread is different if you allow it to be so but if you and a few others are hell bent on maintaining the status quo then that behavior says a whole lot more about you than you want it to.

i stated the purpose of the thread but you insist you know the true motivation, ie to identify "contingents."

connect the dots, guy. your behavior only serves to draw a line in the sand in order that you may create or galvanize contingents you despair of.

as i said, you're playing games.


I answered your question, then i commented on the threads purpose.

I reserve that right all day everyday, as long as im not talking about you personally....deal with it.

ramtour420
Posts: 23521
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
2/5/2013  10:54 PM
NYKMentality wrote:
tkf wrote:Honestly, I think sprewell was a better player.. but that is just me.. so I don't see thing quite the way you do.. carmelo may not get much support because people don't view him with such high regards.. just look at the pro's and cons list... even with most on here being carmelo fans, the cons seem to outweigh the pro's... so it shouldn't be s surprise why there may be such a divide when it comes to this dude..

Saying Sprewell was a better player when compared to Melo would be like stating that Iverson was better than Michael Jordan. During Sprewell's first five years in the league, Sprewell himself failed to lead his teams to the postseason during four of those five seasons. The one playoff trip in which he seen during his first five seasons? A first round elimination. Sprewell was nothing close to a franchise player and/or franchise leader. Melo went to meet K.G after the game, but Sprewell put his hands on and/or chocked out his own head coach. Sprewell didn't even play the game as a franchise leader and/or franchise player. Sprewell was in the league for 13 seasons with only 5 postseason appearances. Sprewell as a basketball player failed to lead his team(s) to the playoffs more times than not.

Carmelo:: 24.9 points, 6.3 boards, 3.1 assists, 0.5 blocks and 1.1 steals per game. 97 double-doubles. A FG% of .456%. FT% of .806%. Scoring Efficiency Rating of 1.282. Shooting Efficiency Rating of .480. NBA Rating of 36.43.

Sprewell: 18.3 points, 4.1 boards, 4.0 assists, 0.4 blocks and 1.4 steals per game. 30 double-doubles. A FG% of .425%. FT% of .804%. Scoring Efficiency Rating of 1.169. Shooting Efficiency Rating of .464. NBA Rating of 28.42.

Sprewell a better basketball player when compared to Melo? Wrong as wrong could possibly be. And trust me, you do not wanna see Sprewell's career losing percentage when compared to Melo's career winning percentage.

Also, Carmelo may not get much support? You've got to be kidding me. He's loved like never before in regards to long time New York Knick fans such as myself along with hundreds of thousands of other long time New Yorkers. We've loved him since his first introduction as a Knick and have grown to love him 10x more during his first full season as a Knick here in 2012-2013. By far the greatest overall Knick since Patrick Ewing, one of the greatest pure scorers we've ever featured as a franchise and without question one of the strongest offensive forces our franchise has ever seen. The heart of our New York Knicks fan base simply loves Carmelo Anthony like never before. You know how loved Melo is by our entire fan base? We'll chant MVP for Melo, even in another arena. Think Brooklyn. Don't you dare sit here and state that Melo isn't loved and supported by 90% of our fan base all because you yourself personally can't get over "the trade". Stop with these outrageous remarks in which are nothing more than bold face lies due to a driven agenda. "Carmelo May Not Get Much Support"? Maybe not in the state of Texas he doesn't.

+1

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
tj23
Posts: 21848
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/20/2010
Member: #3119

2/6/2013  10:03 AM
I've been one of Melo's biggest critics but the guy is simply playing out of his mind this year. Motivated and in shape. Thank you Woody!
RonRon
Posts: 25500
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
2/6/2013  12:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/6/2013  1:00 PM
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not see how these players actually played dictate what player they were but using their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
2/6/2013  12:30 PM
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
vdfebduderocks
Posts: 20141
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/20/2004
Member: #752
2/6/2013  12:56 PM
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.

knickscity
Posts: 24495
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/2/2012
Member: #4241
USA
2/6/2013  1:06 PM
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.


It's just typical thinking when you're trying to push an agenda, and since the thread has already been derailed, this is fair game now....

PRO BASKETBALL; Van Gundy and Sprewell on Different Pages
By SELENA ROBERTS
Published: March 28, 1999

Coach Jeff Van Gundy supported the risk the Knicks took in acquiring Latrell Sprewell after his league suspension for choking his previous coach, Golden State's P. J. Carlesimo. But now a slight fissure is starting to show in the relationship between Van Gundy and the three-time All-Star guard.

As Sprewell continued to make comments over the last two days that indicated his displeasure with being a sixth man and his reluctance to change his playing style to suit the Knicks, Van Gundy took him aside after practice for about 15 minutes today.

Van Gundy did not reveal the nature of the meeting, and Sprewell declined two opportunities to address the situation. But Van Gundy did show some dismay over Sprewell's opinions. On Friday, Sprewell said he would enjoy playing in an up-tempo, less structured system.

''At this point in my career, I'm not going to change,'' Sprewell said that night before he helped the Knicks end their three-game losing streak with a victory against the Phoenix Suns. Sprewell also reiterated that he ''doesn't particularly care for coming off the bench.''

Van Gundy, who doggedly promotes unselfishness and sacrifice within the team, has not been happy about Sprewell's remarks.

''If I had my druthers, would I have him say: 'The Knicks brought me here. They have a lot of faith in me, and I'll do whatever they want to help us win'? Yes, that's what I'd rather hear him say,'' Van Gundy said after the Knicks practiced at U.C.L.A. today in preparation for their game against the Lakers on Sunday. ''And not just say it, but believe it in his heart. But this is the N.B.A. So I'm not sure that's necessarily going to happen or is realistic.''

Sprewell has played his way. There have been times when his teammates have rolled their eyes and scowled as he dribbled recklessly down the court and took quick jumpers in transition, but most have remained supportive. And Van Gundy has tried to understand Sprewell's position while urging him to trust his teammates more and take smarter shots.

''I think with any player what I like to do is talk to them myself and see where they're at,'' Van Gundy said. ''I let them know what I think and listen to what they have to say. Hopefully, we're going the same way philosophically.''

Sprewell had philosophical differences with Carlesimo at Golden State. While the issues between Van Gundy and Sprewell are mild in comparison, there is a sense that Sprewell should embrace his role after being out of the league for 14 months. Other players, with far less baggage, have sacrificed their egos for the team.

''Chris Dudley wants to play more,'' Van Gundy said. ''He doesn't like to sit. Is he happy? Absolutely not. Marcus Camby, same way. They've been asked to sacrifice more than any other guys by far. Sometimes, just in general, what you believe sacrifice is and what true sacrifice is, is totally different. I'm not speaking abut Latrell, but in general terms.''

The meeting between Van Gundy and Sprewell came on the heels of the Knicks' first victory in four games. And it was a victory that Sprewell spearheaded. He did put the brakes on his full-throttle style on occasion and focused on either taking the ball to the basket -- which helped him get to the free-throw line 10 times, for 10 points -- or finding a teammate.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
2/6/2013  1:16 PM
Good back to back posts shedding the real truth about Sprewell. Without that '99 playoff run, Sprewell is probably shipped off to another team due to his constant conflicts with Van Gundy. Somehow Sprewell is revered and Melo is reviled, go figure.
tj23
Posts: 21848
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/20/2010
Member: #3119

2/6/2013  1:23 PM
Melo has been a streak scorer for parts of his career. This season he has been pretty damn consistent. Take away the past couple weeks and he was one of the most consistent top scorers in the league. The one stat I find remarkable is how few of his baskets are assisted. Fans, coaches, everyone want to see ball movement and clean open looks but when it goes in, it goes in. I have no problem letting a guy isolate as long as he is efficient and can pass well when the double team comes. We play PnR with Felton and we play a lot of inside out with Melo and Stat in the post. I think we are still 3rd in offensive efficiency so what they are doing is working.
knickscity
Posts: 24495
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/2/2012
Member: #4241
USA
2/6/2013  1:27 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:Good back to back posts shedding the real truth about Sprewell. Without that '99 playoff run, Sprewell is probably shipped off to another team due to his constant conflicts with Van Gundy. Somehow Sprewell is revered and Melo is reviled, go figure.

Winning changes everything, but touting Sprewell as a player who never complained is being a flat out fool.

He was an enigma his entire time here....but he always competed and played hard even if he didn't like certain things.

No different than Melo and these Knicks, they have to do some substantial winning.

tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
2/6/2013  1:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/6/2013  1:47 PM
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.

I remember it well, and spree wanted to start, and the knicks wanted him to work his way into shape.. in the end, he and jvg made it work, which is why spree was running point.... He didn't rock the boat, didn't sabotage the team.....

Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere.

well if you look at this objectively shouldn't you also put him behind lebron?

And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

it can, but it doesn't happen to those guys often, not as often as it has happened to a streak scorer like carmelo.... and we don't hear about it, because it rarely happens... believe me, this has nothing to do with the market they are in.. if lebron shoots 1-11 sports center will let us know.. I mean really dude?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
IronWillGiroud
Posts: 25207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/17/2012
Member: #4359

2/6/2013  1:42 PM
strengths:

really good scorer
no fear of shooting the shots
cool guy

weaknesses:

playoffs

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
2/6/2013  1:43 PM
knickscity wrote:
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.


It's just typical thinking when you're trying to push an agenda, and since the thread has already been derailed, this is fair game now....

PRO BASKETBALL; Van Gundy and Sprewell on Different Pages
By SELENA ROBERTS
Published: March 28, 1999

Coach Jeff Van Gundy supported the risk the Knicks took in acquiring Latrell Sprewell after his league suspension for choking his previous coach, Golden State's P. J. Carlesimo. But now a slight fissure is starting to show in the relationship between Van Gundy and the three-time All-Star guard.

As Sprewell continued to make comments over the last two days that indicated his displeasure with being a sixth man and his reluctance to change his playing style to suit the Knicks, Van Gundy took him aside after practice for about 15 minutes today.

Van Gundy did not reveal the nature of the meeting, and Sprewell declined two opportunities to address the situation. But Van Gundy did show some dismay over Sprewell's opinions. On Friday, Sprewell said he would enjoy playing in an up-tempo, less structured system.

''At this point in my career, I'm not going to change,'' Sprewell said that night before he helped the Knicks end their three-game losing streak with a victory against the Phoenix Suns. Sprewell also reiterated that he ''doesn't particularly care for coming off the bench.''

Van Gundy, who doggedly promotes unselfishness and sacrifice within the team, has not been happy about Sprewell's remarks.

''If I had my druthers, would I have him say: 'The Knicks brought me here. They have a lot of faith in me, and I'll do whatever they want to help us win'? Yes, that's what I'd rather hear him say,'' Van Gundy said after the Knicks practiced at U.C.L.A. today in preparation for their game against the Lakers on Sunday. ''And not just say it, but believe it in his heart. But this is the N.B.A. So I'm not sure that's necessarily going to happen or is realistic.''

Sprewell has played his way. There have been times when his teammates have rolled their eyes and scowled as he dribbled recklessly down the court and took quick jumpers in transition, but most have remained supportive. And Van Gundy has tried to understand Sprewell's position while urging him to trust his teammates more and take smarter shots.

''I think with any player what I like to do is talk to them myself and see where they're at,'' Van Gundy said. ''I let them know what I think and listen to what they have to say. Hopefully, we're going the same way philosophically.''

Sprewell had philosophical differences with Carlesimo at Golden State. While the issues between Van Gundy and Sprewell are mild in comparison, there is a sense that Sprewell should embrace his role after being out of the league for 14 months. Other players, with far less baggage, have sacrificed their egos for the team.

''Chris Dudley wants to play more,'' Van Gundy said. ''He doesn't like to sit. Is he happy? Absolutely not. Marcus Camby, same way. They've been asked to sacrifice more than any other guys by far. Sometimes, just in general, what you believe sacrifice is and what true sacrifice is, is totally different. I'm not speaking abut Latrell, but in general terms.''

The meeting between Van Gundy and Sprewell came on the heels of the Knicks' first victory in four games. And it was a victory that Sprewell spearheaded. He did put the brakes on his full-throttle style on occasion and focused on either taking the ball to the basket -- which helped him get to the free-throw line 10 times, for 10 points -- or finding a teammate.

This tells us nothing... We all know spree didn't want to come off the bench.. the key was that he didn't sabotage the team.... He didn't hurt the team, he didn't let that get in the way of him being productive.. they went to the finals..

I can say the say thing about JR smith.. he wanted to start, but he didn't let that get in the way of how he played this year.. I am not a fan of his game, but JR has not let it get in the way of team chemistry... this is my point..

posting an article stating what I have already agreed to is pointless.. and trying to accuse me of an agenda is equally pointless because we are not arguing if he wanted to start or not...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
vdfebduderocks
Posts: 20141
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/20/2004
Member: #752
2/6/2013  1:48 PM
tkf wrote:
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.

I remember it well, and spree wanted to start, and the knicks wanted him to work his way into shape.. in the end, he and jvg made it work, which is why spree was running point.... He didn't rock the boat, didn't sabotage the team.....

JVG was forced to start Spree, he had no choice. Spree was basically the point forward for most of his time here only because Charlie Ward/Howard Eisley sucked as PGs and Chris Childs/Mark Jackson were on their decline while here.

LOL at "didn't rock the boat." It's ironic because of the hand injury that occurred on his yacht. If we're gonna judge Spree, we have to judge him from his Warriors and Timberwolves days as well. And it's naive to think he didn't sabotage the Warriors when he choked his coach. Had the Knicks not gotten to the finals, he probably would have sabotaged this team. Luckily, winning and the presence of Ewing kinda calmed everything down. He hurt our team when he was out with that hand injury. Had he been in the lineup, we could have won some of those games. In the weak eastern conference, we may have been able to sneak into the 8th spot.

tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
2/6/2013  1:52 PM
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.

I remember it well, and spree wanted to start, and the knicks wanted him to work his way into shape.. in the end, he and jvg made it work, which is why spree was running point.... He didn't rock the boat, didn't sabotage the team.....

JVG was forced to start Spree, he had no choice. Spree was basically the point forward for most of his time here only because Charlie Ward/Howard Eisley sucked as PGs and Chris Childs/Mark Jackson were on their decline while here.

LOL at "didn't rock the boat." It's ironic because of the hand injury that occurred on his yacht. If we're gonna judge Spree, we have to judge him from his Warriors and Timberwolves days as well. And it's naive to think he didn't sabotage the Warriors when he choked his coach. Had the Knicks not gotten to the finals, he probably would have sabotaged this team. Luckily, winning and the presence of Ewing kinda calmed everything down. He hurt our team when he was out with that hand injury. Had he been in the lineup, we could have won some of those games. In the weak eastern conference, we may have been able to sneak into the 8th spot.


I am judging spree as a knick.. simply because someone said carmelo was the best KNICK since Ewing... i dissagreed.. so again, why talk about his warrior days, which I would like to remind you were not bad at all.. but if you want to bring up his warrior days.... spree was first team all NBA one of those years in GS..something carmelo has never accomplished.. In Denver or NY..

but hey, this is getting way off topic... I liked spree better.. I stated why... I am not going to defend any of his actions in GS as I didn't approve of him choking a coach.. as a player in NY, he ranks far ahead of melo as far as I am concerned.... if you think otherwise, You have that right..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
knickscity
Posts: 24495
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/2/2012
Member: #4241
USA
2/6/2013  1:52 PM
tkf wrote:
knickscity wrote:
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:
About Spree, that is the problem with people, they do not these players actually played dictate what play they were but their achievements and personal STAT's dictate who they are remembered, ironically in a TEAM SPORT


Spree was a great defender
Spree had to always guard the better player/normally best player/ whether he is bigger/stronger/more athletic/quicker or faster
Always played out of position for the better of his team and had to carry the team
We were not a high scoring team, the game was different/valuing each possession vs today's game

He had a good post up game, facilitated an offense, was extremely clutch, and had to do a little bit of EVERYTHING
He was the leader of the team, not Houston
Was the leader on the floor/played his heart out while Houston got the max extension and got the credit

The NY team was not very talented and had many flaws
----------------------------------------------------------
LJ great leader, but 6/4 PF's without athleticism don't work well vs 7footer
We tried to get another 6/4 PF's in Clarence Weatherspoon to replace him

Unfortunately when Camby broke down/Ewing trade/ Kurt Thomas becomes our 2nd/3rd best player on the floor *when Houston was breaking down*, many of his his Knick year's were wasted
Then Mcdyess blows up his knee*2 PF's in Kurt Thomas in Mcdyess would have failed anyway*


On Melo
---------

everyone pretty much here hit it on the spot, the ones that actually participated

Melo does not have the qualities of a franchise leader/player/max player *not at what his extension in a Joe Johnson like contract* but is a pure scorer
Max player for a rookie contract vs a player like Melo's next extension is about 10m per year *in which could kill a franchise's flexiblity and ability to build a contending team
If you do not have many asset's, picks, and player's under contract with very low salaries to compensate for his overpaid salary, it would be very hard to build a team around

He is extremely confident/stubborn that must have it his way or the highway
A quality that allows him to play in NY with all the media and also is part of his weakness at the same time because of his inability to adapt for the better of the team
Take's many bad shot's and has the ability to make them, as this could is negative and positive

He is just too in to himself/need's a coach/teamates to stroke his ego
He need's to be credited and point out a "HOCKEY ASSIST" while it has been called "GOOD BALL MOVEMENT" anywhere else in the league

Does not stay in shape/often need's to be reminded how hard he must stay in shape to get the best best production out of him

His mental approach to the game is "how can I score more points to open the court up for my team"
While Lebron/Durant actually look to see how the opponent's DEFENSE is playing them, and see's how they can attack the DEFENSE, to get the consistently shot %/attempt

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

I wish I could sig this whole post.. you hit the nail on the head.. I remember the day we got sprewell and for me, I had to accept that we were losing a fan favorite in starks in bringing in a guy with some baggage.. real baggage.. the turning point for me, is when spree came off the bench.. didn't really complain and played his arse off... then when the team needed him to play PG, he did so, although he only had a right hand at the time.... didn't complain.. Just played... watching him, houston and camby was fun... really fun, and what I loved about sprewell is that he really valued the defensive end as much as the offensive side of the ball.... he was a well rounded player and for a short time, a real leader of the knicks..

For the one's that bash this thread, they realize that he has many flaw's and his negatives are not the characteristic's of a leader/max player
Nothing is wrong with that, but he is a great SCORER, not a great basketball player

that is such a great point, I don't think anyone doubts he is a great scorer.. for me, He is more of a great streak scorer.. I mean, no one looks at lebron as a great scorer, yet he came into the league at the same time carmelo did, and he is 3000+ points ahead of him.... some perspective here.. carmelo is a great STREAK scorer and that is fine... for those who enjoy scoring in bunches.. but there is a downside... the 1-11 stretches as well.... but anyway.. great streak scorer, not great player..

I remember when Sprewell was traded here too, yet I was probably a little younger than the both of you.

First off, Sprewell complained about coming off the bench. He could have started on that team, but JVG refused. He made his complaints public a few times too. Granted this was all done pre-internet and twitter and whatnot, so it was difficult for us to actually remember it happening. Pull up some old NYTimes articles and you'll see it. Sprewell and JVG clashed about playing time, but at the time there were bigger issues inside the team, i.e. JVG and Camby & JVG vs. Grunfeld, the latter of which set the precedent for the archaic media policy we have now.

As I digress, lemme also remind you that Sprewell and JVG's legacy here was pretty much created and saved by the 99 playoffs. Had we missed the playoffs or gotten knocked out by Miami, JVG would be fired and Sprewell probably would have been gone the year after. Because Spree had that awesome playoff run, Grandmama Larry Johnson was on the major decline, and due to Ewing's injury. it put JVG in a bind to start him at SF. They had no choice at that time. I don't remember him playing PG too much during the lockout season, but I'll buy it if true.

Now if you wanna say Sprewell played his arse off for the team, I'll buy that... up until the 2000-2001 season. Some of his great effort started to fade away beginning that year. His shooting percentages were awful the next two seasons. He also got himself in a bunch of distractions during his time here too.

Sprewell was a very good all-around player. His off-the court antics and other things started to catch up to him. By the time his last season with us came through, his offense pretty much was jump shots and that's it. Shandon Anderson was a better slasher/dunker than Spree at that time and that says a lot. It's crazy to say he was the leader of the team though. The leader of the team doesn't have all these antics that he had. If anything, Herb Williams, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, and others were leaders, not Spree.


Now back to Melo, I don't get this whole notion of a "streak scorer." Melo's a scorer just as much as Durant's a scorer and Kobe's a scorer and Lebron's a scorer. Right now, I'd put Melo behind KD and maybe Kobe as scorers. KD can just shoot from anywhere, Kobe has that black mamba in him, and Melo can also shoot from anywhere. LeBron's a beast and basically scores because he creates so many easy opportunities for him. From a scoring/shooting perspective, his midrange/3-point game doesn't compare to the others. They don't score in bunches. Melo scores throughout the entire game. And the 1-11 stretches can happen to any one of these guys. You just don't hear about it often because they're not in the NY market. So that sentence makes no sense.

So if you'd call Melo a great scorer and not great player, that's fine. But Melo now was better than Sprewell ever was as a player. And that cannot be argued.


It's just typical thinking when you're trying to push an agenda, and since the thread has already been derailed, this is fair game now....

PRO BASKETBALL; Van Gundy and Sprewell on Different Pages
By SELENA ROBERTS
Published: March 28, 1999

Coach Jeff Van Gundy supported the risk the Knicks took in acquiring Latrell Sprewell after his league suspension for choking his previous coach, Golden State's P. J. Carlesimo. But now a slight fissure is starting to show in the relationship between Van Gundy and the three-time All-Star guard.

As Sprewell continued to make comments over the last two days that indicated his displeasure with being a sixth man and his reluctance to change his playing style to suit the Knicks, Van Gundy took him aside after practice for about 15 minutes today.

Van Gundy did not reveal the nature of the meeting, and Sprewell declined two opportunities to address the situation. But Van Gundy did show some dismay over Sprewell's opinions. On Friday, Sprewell said he would enjoy playing in an up-tempo, less structured system.

''At this point in my career, I'm not going to change,'' Sprewell said that night before he helped the Knicks end their three-game losing streak with a victory against the Phoenix Suns. Sprewell also reiterated that he ''doesn't particularly care for coming off the bench.''

Van Gundy, who doggedly promotes unselfishness and sacrifice within the team, has not been happy about Sprewell's remarks.

''If I had my druthers, would I have him say: 'The Knicks brought me here. They have a lot of faith in me, and I'll do whatever they want to help us win'? Yes, that's what I'd rather hear him say,'' Van Gundy said after the Knicks practiced at U.C.L.A. today in preparation for their game against the Lakers on Sunday. ''And not just say it, but believe it in his heart. But this is the N.B.A. So I'm not sure that's necessarily going to happen or is realistic.''

Sprewell has played his way. There have been times when his teammates have rolled their eyes and scowled as he dribbled recklessly down the court and took quick jumpers in transition, but most have remained supportive. And Van Gundy has tried to understand Sprewell's position while urging him to trust his teammates more and take smarter shots.

''I think with any player what I like to do is talk to them myself and see where they're at,'' Van Gundy said. ''I let them know what I think and listen to what they have to say. Hopefully, we're going the same way philosophically.''

Sprewell had philosophical differences with Carlesimo at Golden State. While the issues between Van Gundy and Sprewell are mild in comparison, there is a sense that Sprewell should embrace his role after being out of the league for 14 months. Other players, with far less baggage, have sacrificed their egos for the team.

''Chris Dudley wants to play more,'' Van Gundy said. ''He doesn't like to sit. Is he happy? Absolutely not. Marcus Camby, same way. They've been asked to sacrifice more than any other guys by far. Sometimes, just in general, what you believe sacrifice is and what true sacrifice is, is totally different. I'm not speaking abut Latrell, but in general terms.''

The meeting between Van Gundy and Sprewell came on the heels of the Knicks' first victory in four games. And it was a victory that Sprewell spearheaded. He did put the brakes on his full-throttle style on occasion and focused on either taking the ball to the basket -- which helped him get to the free-throw line 10 times, for 10 points -- or finding a teammate.

This tells us nothing... We all know spree didn't want to come off the bench.. the key was that he didn't sabotage the team.... He didn't hurt the team, he didn't let that get in the way of him being productive.. they went to the finals..

I can say the say thing about JR smith.. he wanted to start, but he didn't let that get in the way of how he played this year.. I am not a fan of his game, but JR has not let it get in the way of team chemistry... this is my point..

posting an article stating what I have already agreed to is pointless.. and trying to accuse me of an agenda is equally pointless because we are not arguing if he wanted to start or not...

It tells alot actually, Sprewell had no interest in doing what the team needed, but the coach made sure he did....no different than what we see now with Woodson.

You're desperately touting it as all being Sprewell doing the right thing when he had a coach who put him in his place.

Perhaps D'antoni should have been more forceful, but who cares dude is gone, we're seeing good results now, and I'm more than willing to see what the team can accomplish.

vdfebduderocks
Posts: 20141
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/20/2004
Member: #752
2/6/2013  2:12 PM
tkf wrote:
I am judging spree as a knick.. simply because someone said carmelo was the best KNICK since Ewing... i dissagreed.. so again, why talk about his warrior days, which I would like to remind you were not bad at all.. but if you want to bring up his warrior days.... spree was first team all NBA one of those years in GS..something carmelo has never accomplished .. In Denver or NY..

Alright I'm ending this thread here.... this might be the stupidest thing I've ever read ever.

The only reason he won this award was because Jordan "retired" that year and there weren't many elite SGs that year. Jeez, the only guys I can think of are Mitch Richmond and Mark Price... BTW, Spree that year averaged 21PPG, 5RBS, 5ASTS, 2 SPG at 43 minutes per game. Nothing special here. Reggie Miller didn't even make any of the teams.

Speaking of Reggie, do you think Reggie's one of the best Pacers ever/elite players? I'd think so too... well guess what, he didn't make the ALL NBA First Team ever.... you know why? A guy named Michael Jordan was ahead of him. But that doesn't discount Reggie's skills at any imagination. Melo didn't make the All-NBA 1st teams b/c he's not better than LeBron. That doesn't mean he's not a great player, he's just not better than LeBron and thus can't make 1st team ALL NBA unless he plays PF full time. With LeBron and Durant around, it's tough for Melo to make 1st team, but that shouldn't discount his talents ever.

End of story.

yellowboy90
Posts: 33907
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/23/2011
Member: #3538

2/6/2013  2:15 PM
vdfebduderocks wrote:
tkf wrote:
I am judging spree as a knick.. simply because someone said carmelo was the best KNICK since Ewing... i dissagreed.. so again, why talk about his warrior days, which I would like to remind you were not bad at all.. but if you want to bring up his warrior days.... spree was first team all NBA one of those years in GS..something carmelo has never accomplished .. In Denver or NY..

Alright I'm ending this thread here.... this might be the stupidest thing I've ever read ever.

The only reason he won this award was because Jordan "retired" that year and there weren't many elite SGs that year. Jeez, the only guys I can think of are Mitch Richmond and Mark Price... BTW, Spree that year averaged 21PPG, 5RBS, 5ASTS, 2 SPG at 43 minutes per game. Nothing special here. Reggie Miller didn't even make any of the teams.

Speaking of Reggie, do you think Reggie's one of the best Pacers ever/elite players? I'd think so too... well guess what, he didn't make the ALL NBA First Team ever.... you know why? A guy named Michael Jordan was ahead of him. But that doesn't discount Reggie's skills at any imagination. Melo didn't make the All-NBA 1st teams b/c he's not better than LeBron. That doesn't mean he's not a great player, he's just not better than LeBron and thus can't make 1st team ALL NBA unless he plays PF full time. With LeBron and Durant around, it's tough for Melo to make 1st team, but that shouldn't discount his talents ever.

End of story.

WHy do people keep going back and forth like it's going to change his opinion. It's his posted opinion and I doubt it will ever change.

Forum exercise: so-called haters list Melo's strengths; fans list his weaknesses

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.