Game Thread: Knicks vs Knuggs. Wilson vs. JR, Melo vs. gallo, Moz vs. Sheed..........
Author Thread
NUPE
Posts: 21221
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/29/2012
Member: #4205

12/11/2012  1:59 PM
jrodmc wrote:So weeding through the game thread after the fact, you can see several things happening:

1) the Somberhateattude is like a low-grade virus. Knick wins seem to diminish it's self-production of longer, virulent posts. Thank you, Melobiotics. The best offerings appear to be "zzzzzzzzzzzzzz" and "lawson is fast". And statistics of course by the boatload, which leads us to:

2) Statistics don't lie. They also can be used to explain how Nuggets losing is really Nuggets winning. Or at least, despite the statements of some of the Somberanians, that Gallo is still better, more savvy, more potential-per-possession and better looking and loved than Melo ever can hope to be. Wax statues aside.

3) Watching the games is setting some of them on edge now. Despite the holiday season. Which leads us to:

THE SOMBERITE TOP TEN LIST TO SANTA (in no particular order):
10. Melo gets hurt, Knicks go on to win a chip without him. Team captain Chandler decrees that Melo is not ring-eligible.
9. Melo plays the rest of the season, averages 35ppg, Knicks blown out in first round.
8. Dolan sells team mid season to the Steve Jobs estate, it's executors trade Melo for Gallo straight up, Knicks win a chip. Denver franchise folds. Melo plays in China.
7. Chandler, Kidd, Felton, Novak all break down, Melo doesn't, Knicks miss the playoffs on last game of the regular season.
6. Melo gets voted off Manhattan.
5. Denver re-signs AR, takes on ECurry, beats Knicks in the Finals 4-0. Gallo/Wilson/Moz co-co-MVPs.
4. Same as 5, but Brooklyn beats Knicks in Semis 4-0, loses to Denver in Finals 4-3. Melo apologizes for "The Trade".
3. Brooklyn goes on a 40 game win streak. Breaking all NBA team records. Each member of the N*yets averages a triple double. Avery brings out the Princeton offense and memories of Celtic basketball bring tears to everyone's eyes as N*yets win their first chip. Dolan moves the Knicks franchise to Delaware at the end of the season.
2. Melo retires at mid-season to play minor league baseball. Knicks immediately win a chip.
1. Denver and Brooklyn trade the Larry O'Brien back and forth for the next decade. Dolan sells the Knicks franchise to Major League Soccer. Melo sits on the bench for the Pistons.

LoL

AUTOADVERT
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

12/11/2012  3:20 PM
dk7th wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Whenever we look at any research findings and try to apply them to ourselves, we're "asserting the science to one person." When you ask questions like should I eat healthy, exercise, drink and drive etc., you're expressing a belief that applying the science to one person is smarter than ignoring that science.

True. But the possibly of being wrong 25 percent of the time with your analysis? Thats good for a poker game where in the long run you hope to be right 50-75 pct of the time/hands. Or remaining on the smarter side of caution.

Just realize that you can he can be the ONE of 4 where Mr. Berri is wrong.


The 75 to 90% doesn't mean that his interpretation of specific players will be completely wrong 1 in 4 times. It means that his predictions for team wins will be slightly off. If you add up the WP of the individual players and calculate the team's expected win total, he likely will not be exactly right but will be within 2 to 3 wins of the team's actual performance.
That said, I don't think the advanced stats are perfect. They probably *slightly* devalue shot-creation and slightly devalue Melo's contribution. Most fans dramatically overvalue shot-creation though.

I don't overvalue these shots. I hate them - and hated/hate when kobe takes/took them. With all those horrible/annoying shots, he was still a damn good player.

The question is, does a given player bring enough to the table to overcome these (awful) shots.


But the thing is, for a PF, Melo is below average in rebounding and blocks and about average in assist:TO and steals.

Kobe's 4 1/2 assists are also below average for the defacto PG - Want to see efficient, look at Wade. Kobe's efficiency numbers are trash compared to Wades.

And if you put him (kobe) at PF, he would probably be a below average rebounder.

wade for his career at shooting guard has a usage rate to assist rate (different from personal assists, it ) of 1:1 which is just about ideal for the position. 6 assists per game is very good indeed and 56.6TS% is just a bit low but he has never been a decent 3-point shooter for a shooting guard.

bryant has a surprisingly low usg/ast rate ratio of 1.33:1 which is great for a perceived ball hog. jordan's is also 1.33:1 for his career. this might very well be due to the triangle offense... which bryant has notoriously flouted often enough to his detriment and discredit. 4.7 assists is a bit low lets be honest, and his 55.5TS% is too low.

Good post and insight regarding the triangle offense.

fishmike
Posts: 40818
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/11/2012  3:26 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Whenever we look at any research findings and try to apply them to ourselves, we're "asserting the science to one person." When you ask questions like should I eat healthy, exercise, drink and drive etc., you're expressing a belief that applying the science to one person is smarter than ignoring that science.

True. But the possibly of being wrong 25 percent of the time with your analysis? Thats good for a poker game where in the long run you hope to be right 50-75 pct of the time/hands. Or remaining on the smarter side of caution.

Just realize that you can he can be the ONE of 4 where Mr. Berri is wrong.


The 75 to 90% doesn't mean that his interpretation of specific players will be completely wrong 1 in 4 times. It means that his predictions for team wins will be slightly off. If you add up the WP of the individual players and calculate the team's expected win total, he likely will not be exactly right but will be within 2 to 3 wins of the team's actual performance.
That said, I don't think the advanced stats are perfect. They probably *slightly* devalue shot-creation and slightly devalue Melo's contribution. Most fans dramatically overvalue shot-creation though.

I don't overvalue these shots. I hate them - and hated/hate when kobe takes/took them. With all those horrible/annoying shots, he was still a damn good player.

The question is, does a given player bring enough to the table to overcome these (awful) shots.


But the thing is, for a PF, Melo is below average in rebounding and blocks and about average in assist:TO and steals.

Kobe's 4 1/2 assists are also below average for the defacto PG - Want to see efficient, look at Wade. Kobe's efficiency numbers are trash compared to Wades.

And if you put him (kobe) at PF, he would probably be a below average rebounder.

wade for his career at shooting guard has a usage rate to assist rate (different from personal assists, it ) of 1:1 which is just about ideal for the position. 6 assists per game is very good indeed and 56.6TS% is just a bit low but he has never been a decent 3-point shooter for a shooting guard.

bryant has a surprisingly low usg/ast rate ratio of 1.33:1 which is great for a perceived ball hog. jordan's is also 1.33:1 for his career. this might very well be due to the triangle offense... which bryant has notoriously flouted often enough to his detriment and discredit. 4.7 assists is a bit low lets be honest, and his 55.5TS% is too low.

Good post and insight regarding the triangle offense.

agreed! You know... there was a time when people actually discussed such things and offered their understanding and insight into this game we all love.

Now please stop talking about interesting and deep basketball stuff and please go back and spending more time on why or why not Melo is the best player ever. That appears to be unresolved and we need all UK resources available so we can publish our findings asap.

Phil Jackson on Melo: "no doubt about Carmelo being one of the best players in the league, still has another level he can go to"
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

12/11/2012  7:57 PM
fishmike wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Whenever we look at any research findings and try to apply them to ourselves, we're "asserting the science to one person." When you ask questions like should I eat healthy, exercise, drink and drive etc., you're expressing a belief that applying the science to one person is smarter than ignoring that science.

True. But the possibly of being wrong 25 percent of the time with your analysis? Thats good for a poker game where in the long run you hope to be right 50-75 pct of the time/hands. Or remaining on the smarter side of caution.

Just realize that you can he can be the ONE of 4 where Mr. Berri is wrong.


The 75 to 90% doesn't mean that his interpretation of specific players will be completely wrong 1 in 4 times. It means that his predictions for team wins will be slightly off. If you add up the WP of the individual players and calculate the team's expected win total, he likely will not be exactly right but will be within 2 to 3 wins of the team's actual performance.
That said, I don't think the advanced stats are perfect. They probably *slightly* devalue shot-creation and slightly devalue Melo's contribution. Most fans dramatically overvalue shot-creation though.

I don't overvalue these shots. I hate them - and hated/hate when kobe takes/took them. With all those horrible/annoying shots, he was still a damn good player.

The question is, does a given player bring enough to the table to overcome these (awful) shots.


But the thing is, for a PF, Melo is below average in rebounding and blocks and about average in assist:TO and steals.

Kobe's 4 1/2 assists are also below average for the defacto PG - Want to see efficient, look at Wade. Kobe's efficiency numbers are trash compared to Wades.

And if you put him (kobe) at PF, he would probably be a below average rebounder.

wade for his career at shooting guard has a usage rate to assist rate (different from personal assists, it ) of 1:1 which is just about ideal for the position. 6 assists per game is very good indeed and 56.6TS% is just a bit low but he has never been a decent 3-point shooter for a shooting guard.

bryant has a surprisingly low usg/ast rate ratio of 1.33:1 which is great for a perceived ball hog. jordan's is also 1.33:1 for his career. this might very well be due to the triangle offense... which bryant has notoriously flouted often enough to his detriment and discredit. 4.7 assists is a bit low lets be honest, and his 55.5TS% is too low.

Good post and insight regarding the triangle offense.

agreed! You know... there was a time when people actually discussed such things and offered their understanding and insight into this game we all love.

Now please stop talking about interesting and deep basketball stuff and please go back and spending more time on why or why not Melo is the best player ever. That appears to be unresolved and we need all UK resources available so we can publish our findings asap.

You talk about it in 4 or 5 of your posts. Pot calling the kettle black - :-)

Game Thread: Knicks vs Knuggs. Wilson vs. JR, Melo vs. gallo, Moz vs. Sheed..........

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.