[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Sportswriter "Mans Up" about Linsanity
Author Thread
AnubisADL
Posts: 27382
Alba Posts: 13
Joined: 6/29/2009
Member: #2771
USA
12/2/2012  12:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/2/2012  12:35 PM
MS wrote:So just to be fair signing a 39 year old that is having back spasms already in the first year of his three year deal and the coprse of Marcus Camby to a three year deal makes sense??

The contract was absurd, but the kid looks like he isn't 100 percent yet. He can still drop 20 and get you double figure assists. If you have unlimited money you just don't let players walk. Especially young players.

He hasn't been impressive to date, but let's give it a little time. The Knicks are playing great ball.

Woodson wasnt going to allow Lin to freelance like D'Antoni did.

Camby is insurance for Chandler. Chandler isnt known as an iron man.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
AUTOADVERT
VCoug
Posts: 24670
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/28/2007
Member: #1406

12/2/2012  12:44 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:We are going to be over the luxury tax anyway when Lin's poison pill came up in 2014-15. The only thing Lin's contract would have done is push us further over the luxury tax threshold. Besides, it's certainly reasonable to believe if we would have just offered him the max, around $5M/year, none of this would have ever happened

Assuming he would have accepted that contract.


VCoug did not assume Lin would have accepted the contract; he just stated that it was a possibility.

Thank you. It's certainly possible that if we offered the contract everything plays out exactly as it did but I would have liked to know what would have happened if we had.

Knicksfans Forzingis!
VCoug
Posts: 24670
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/28/2007
Member: #1406

12/2/2012  12:48 PM
smackeddog wrote:
VCoug wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:I'm so glad he's Houston's problem and not ours.

I wish our problems were paid only $8 mil for 3 years

There are 14.9 million reasons in year three of his deal for him not to be in ny. This is misrepresenting things a bit.

It amazes me that some people care how much James Dolan pays in luxury tax.

No one cares how much Dolan plays in luxury tax, but there is a point at which he'll refuse to add any more salary to the team because of it. With Lin's $15mil, and, what $30mil tax, there's no way he would have shelled out anymore (on top of Amar'e, Tyson and Melo)- that would have meant definitely no JR Smith and no MLE spending going forward.

Why not? Dolan's paid way more for way less results in the past. I believe he paid something close to $200M to go 23-59 under Larry Brown and no one was ever held accountable for that fiasco. All of a sudden, now that we're good he's going to tighten the purse strings? Also, from what I've read the money spent and lost on his sports holdings, Knicks, Rangers, and MSG, is a small drop in the bucket compared to what's earned from the rest of Cablevision.

Knicksfans Forzingis!
Bonn1997
Posts: 58317
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/2/2012  12:49 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
MS wrote:So just to be fair signing a 39 year old that is having back spasms already in the first year of his three year deal and the coprse of Marcus Camby to a three year deal makes sense??

The contract was absurd, but the kid looks like he isn't 100 percent yet. He can still drop 20 and get you double figure assists. If you have unlimited money you just don't let players walk. Especially young players.

He hasn't been impressive to date, but let's give it a little time. The Knicks are playing great ball.

Woodson wasnt going to allow Lin to freelance like D'Antoni did.

Camby is insurance for Chandler. Chandler isnt known as an iron man.


Camby is our insurance? LOL! That's like buying a tin foil house as insurance in case your brick house falls apart!
CashMoney
Posts: 23090
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
12/2/2012  1:15 PM
MS wrote:So just to be fair signing a 39 year old that is having back spasms already in the first year of his three year deal and the coprse of Marcus Camby to a three year deal makes sense??

The contract was absurd, but the kid looks like he isn't 100 percent yet. He can still drop 20 and get you double figure assists. If you have unlimited money you just don't let players walk. Especially young players.

He hasn't been impressive to date, but let's give it a little time. The Knicks are playing great ball.

What is Lin recovering from? Did I miss him tearing his ACL or something?

He's a decent playing....nothing more nothing less. Felton is a better fit for this team.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
CashMoney
Posts: 23090
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
12/2/2012  1:18 PM
VCoug wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:We are going to be over the luxury tax anyway when Lin's poison pill came up in 2014-15. The only thing Lin's contract would have done is push us further over the luxury tax threshold. Besides, it's certainly reasonable to believe if we would have just offered him the max, around $5M/year, none of this would have ever happened

Assuming he would have accepted that contract.


VCoug did not assume Lin would have accepted the contract; he just stated that it was a possibility.

Thank you. It's certainly possible that if we offered the contract everything plays out exactly as it did but I would have liked to know what would have happened if we had.

Lin goes to Houston and is called greedy and unloyal for leaving. I still don't get the "we should have offered Lin a deal" crap. The Knicks said from the start that they would let the market dicate his value.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
12/2/2012  1:40 PM
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:We are going to be over the luxury tax anyway when Lin's poison pill came up in 2014-15. The only thing Lin's contract would have done is push us further over the luxury tax threshold. Besides, it's certainly reasonable to believe if we would have just offered him the max, around $5M/year, none of this would have ever happened

Assuming he would have accepted that contract.


VCoug did not assume Lin would have accepted the contract; he just stated that it was a possibility.

Thank you. It's certainly possible that if we offered the contract everything plays out exactly as it did but I would have liked to know what would have happened if we had.

Lin goes to Houston and is called greedy and unloyal for leaving. I still don't get the "we should have offered Lin a deal" crap. The Knicks said from the start that they would let the market dicate his value.

Guy fired his old agent because he wanted to capitalize on his opportunity. Nothing wrong with that but I think it was obvious that he wasn't just going to sign for 5 mil.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
DurzoBlint
Posts: 23067
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/10/2006
Member: #1152
USA
12/3/2012  7:17 AM
VCoug wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:I'm so glad he's Houston's problem and not ours.

I wish our problems were paid only $8 mil for 3 years

There are 14.9 million reasons in year three of his deal for him not to be in ny. This is misrepresenting things a bit.

It amazes me that some people care how much James Dolan pays in luxury tax.

its not about James Dolan but flexibility going forward. With what we are paying Melo & Amare, the last year of Lin's contract would have eliminated our ability to fill in the holes on this team. Guys keep bring up Dolan like they are looking for someone to blame but, the fact is the Knicks did the right thing.

Guys need to stop being so damn hypocritical. Always calling out the franchise when they get things wrong but, won't give props when the do something right. taste.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
IronWillGiroud
Posts: 25207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/17/2012
Member: #4359

12/3/2012  7:20 AM
This is all wheel spinning in the mud, no one needs to "Man Up" over anything. Lin has huge upside but needs to be allowed to make mistakes. D'Antoni was fast-forwarding Lin's learning process. Just give it time and world opinion will be unanimous: Lin is a baller. He's played much better since the Knicks win, which tells me that Lin's question is mostly about confidence.
The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
DurzoBlint
Posts: 23067
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/10/2006
Member: #1152
USA
12/3/2012  9:44 AM
VCoug wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:We are going to be over the luxury tax anyway when Lin's poison pill came up in 2014-15. The only thing Lin's contract would have done is push us further over the luxury tax threshold. Besides, it's certainly reasonable to believe if we would have just offered him the max, around $5M/year, none of this would have ever happened

Assuming he would have accepted that contract.


VCoug did not assume Lin would have accepted the contract; he just stated that it was a possibility.

Thank you. It's certainly possible that if we offered the contract everything plays out exactly as it did but I would have liked to know what would have happened if we had.


It wasn't a case of New York not offering a contact but, that he didn't wait his turn. New York would have gotten to him had he waited just like Novak waited. Unfortunately, he wanted to test the market and see how much he could get. If he loved New York so much, why didn't he wait his turn.

Also, the claims of matching were made before Houson changed the Contract. Why did they change the contract, because Lin's agent told them New York would match just about anything. Blame the agent for being either arrogant or clueless. He did Lin a disservice by not taking into account the ramifications of that last year.

Same thing happened with Purp. Dude didn't want to wait for us to get to him and decided to sign with Jersey and derailed his career once again.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Bonn1997
Posts: 58317
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/3/2012  9:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2012  9:48 AM
DurzoBlint wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:We are going to be over the luxury tax anyway when Lin's poison pill came up in 2014-15. The only thing Lin's contract would have done is push us further over the luxury tax threshold. Besides, it's certainly reasonable to believe if we would have just offered him the max, around $5M/year, none of this would have ever happened

Assuming he would have accepted that contract.


VCoug did not assume Lin would have accepted the contract; he just stated that it was a possibility.

Thank you. It's certainly possible that if we offered the contract everything plays out exactly as it did but I would have liked to know what would have happened if we had.


It wasn't a case of New York not offering a contact but, that he didn't wait his turn. New York would have gotten to him had he waited just like Novak waited. Unfortunately, he wanted to test the market and see how much he could get. If he loved New York so much, why didn't he wait his turn.


I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=42403
misterearl
Posts: 38657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
12/3/2012  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2012  9:57 AM
Don't Rewrite The Facts

DurzoBlint is 100 per cent factorial on his summary bonn1997. Your simplistic view conveniently erases the details of the sequence.

Bonn1997 wrote:
I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.

Wrong. Yes, the Knicks encouraged Lin to set his market price. That was a reward for the lightning bolt of a season. No one had a problem with that strategy because the Dolan's have plenty of money. Matching would not be a problem. The Knicks matched the first Houston offer sheet and Lin empowered Williams & Connally (Lin's NEW Washington DC agency - NOT his humble original agent who stood by him when he was undrafted) to go back and up the ante. Bad move. Dolan was pissed.

Good Riddance.

once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
Posts: 58317
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/3/2012  10:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2012  10:03 AM
misterearl wrote:Don't Rewrite The Facts

DurzoBlint is 100 per cent factorial on his summary bonn1997. Your simplistic view conveniently erases the details of the sequence.

Bonn1997 wrote:
I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.

Wrong. Yes, the Knicks encouraged Lin to set his market price. That was a reward for the lightning bolt of a season. No one had a problem with that strategy because the Dolan's have plenty of money. Matching would not be a problem. The Knicks matched the first Houston offer sheet and Lin empowered Williams & Connally (Lin's NEW Washington DC agency - NOT his humble original agent who stood by him when he was undrafted) to go back and up the ante. Bad move. Dolan was pissed.

Good Riddance.


You are confused. There was no first offer sheet that the Knicks matched. If there was, he'd be a Knick now because the matching would have ended his free agency.
misterearl
Posts: 38657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
12/3/2012  10:04 AM
See Ray Allen.

bonn1997 - no one forced Lin to sign with Houston. He WANTED to sign with Houston.

Players accept less money to play where they WANT to be all the time.

once a knick always a knick
NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
12/3/2012  10:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2012  10:08 AM
Man, people have selective memory. Here are some facts.

1. Knicks could have offered Lin the full MLE and signed him to a decent contract at around $5M per year at around 3-5 years. The Knicks decided not to and told him to test the market and set his value.
2. Lin's old agent was a little overwhelmed. He told Lin he needs help, Lin goes and finds another agent with NBA experience and kept his old agent as advisor.
3. New agent shops him around and got 1 lone suitor in Morey. No other GM dared to court Lin since they know that the Knicks will not be stupid enough to let him go.
4. Morey gave a verbal offer at full MLE type money in the 1st 2 years and $9M for year 3 and/or 4. Meaning the total of the contract could have been either 3 years for $20M or 4 years at $29M. Morey never sent to league and make an actual offer. Again, Lin was never given a chance to sign it or decline it.
5. Dolan through Woody informed everybody that they will match anything of up to 1 Billion dollars.
6. Lin, Lin's agent and Morey had another meeting. Morey desperately wanted to sign Lin and Asik. They messed up their Dragic and Lowry PG situation because they needed to free up money for the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. When they knew they were losing out on Dwight and they already lost their 2 PGs, they set in motion 2 identical poison pill contracts for Lin and Asik. Hoping to get 1 but not 2. These poison pill contracts are genius. They only cost the Rockets $8M per year for both players for both cap and actual money. Even with Harden now, they still have money to get a foundation player next year. They have no problems contract wise.
7. Lin signs the ONLY contract he was offered.
8. It has been discussed by NBA experts that the Knick situation is unique and poison pill contract should not affect the Knicks but would affect Chicago. The Knicks are so over the cap on year 3 that it will not affect them in any way in getting anymore players. It is only Dolan's money and since Dolan has a history of spending his money, it was a done deal that the Knicks will match.
9. For some reason, Dolan was miffed that Lin signed that contract. Maybe he felt like he was being shown up. I don't know. Knicks went ahead and sign Felton and informed the NBA that they will not match.


Tell me again how this is Lin's fault?

DurzoBlint
Posts: 23067
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/10/2006
Member: #1152
USA
12/3/2012  10:09 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Don't Rewrite The Facts

DurzoBlint is 100 per cent factorial on his summary bonn1997. Your simplistic view conveniently erases the details of the sequence.

Bonn1997 wrote:
I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.

Wrong. Yes, the Knicks encouraged Lin to set his market price. That was a reward for the lightning bolt of a season. No one had a problem with that strategy because the Dolan's have plenty of money. Matching would not be a problem. The Knicks matched the first Houston offer sheet and Lin empowered Williams & Connally (Lin's NEW Washington DC agency - NOT his humble original agent who stood by him when he was undrafted) to go back and up the ante. Bad move. Dolan was pissed.

Good Riddance.


You are confused. There was no first offer sheet that the Knicks matched. If there was, he'd be a Knick now because the matching would have ended his free agency.

yes, there was an original offer sheet that the knicks said they would match. Then (even Houston admitted it) they decided to up the ante AFTER being informed that New York would match. Go read the statement Houston put out. It says everything your denying.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Bonn1997
Posts: 58317
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/3/2012  10:11 AM
DurzoBlint wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Don't Rewrite The Facts

DurzoBlint is 100 per cent factorial on his summary bonn1997. Your simplistic view conveniently erases the details of the sequence.

Bonn1997 wrote:
I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.

Wrong. Yes, the Knicks encouraged Lin to set his market price. That was a reward for the lightning bolt of a season. No one had a problem with that strategy because the Dolan's have plenty of money. Matching would not be a problem. The Knicks matched the first Houston offer sheet and Lin empowered Williams & Connally (Lin's NEW Washington DC agency - NOT his humble original agent who stood by him when he was undrafted) to go back and up the ante. Bad move. Dolan was pissed.

Good Riddance.


You are confused. There was no first offer sheet that the Knicks matched. If there was, he'd be a Knick now because the matching would have ended his free agency.

yes, there was an original offer sheet that the knicks said they would match. Then (even Houston admitted it) they decided to up the ante AFTER being informed that New York would match. Go read the statement Houston put out. It says everything your denying.


You lost me. I denied that the Knicks signed a first offer sheet. Are you agreeing with me that the Knicks did not or are you agreeing with Earl that the Knicks did sign that sheet?
NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
12/3/2012  10:12 AM
DurzoBlint wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Don't Rewrite The Facts

DurzoBlint is 100 per cent factorial on his summary bonn1997. Your simplistic view conveniently erases the details of the sequence.

Bonn1997 wrote:
I think you've got the facts wrong here! The Knicks told him to test the market and he followed their instructions. Lin waited and became upset with the Knicks for not offering a contract.

Wrong. Yes, the Knicks encouraged Lin to set his market price. That was a reward for the lightning bolt of a season. No one had a problem with that strategy because the Dolan's have plenty of money. Matching would not be a problem. The Knicks matched the first Houston offer sheet and Lin empowered Williams & Connally (Lin's NEW Washington DC agency - NOT his humble original agent who stood by him when he was undrafted) to go back and up the ante. Bad move. Dolan was pissed.

Good Riddance.


You are confused. There was no first offer sheet that the Knicks matched. If there was, he'd be a Knick now because the matching would have ended his free agency.

yes, there was an original offer sheet that the knicks said they would match. Then (even Houston admitted it) they decided to up the ante AFTER being informed that New York would match. Go read the statement Houston put out. It says everything your denying.

My goodness. It was a verbal and not an actual offer sheet. There was nothing to sign.

DurzoBlint
Posts: 23067
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/10/2006
Member: #1152
USA
12/3/2012  10:13 AM
the fact of the matter is that either his agent did him a disservice by not letting him know the ramification of that last year or he didn't care. If he didn't care then he wasn't interested in winning because that last year would handcuff our ability to add further talent or fill in any of the teams holes.
the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Andrew
Posts: 26493
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #1
USA
12/3/2012  10:17 AM
NYKBocker wrote:Man, people have selective memory. Here are some facts.

1. Knicks could have offered Lin the full MLE and signed him to a decent contract at around $5M per year at around 3-5 years. The Knicks decided not to and told him to test the market and set his value.
2. Lin's old agent was a little overwhelmed. He told Lin he needs help, Lin goes and finds another agent with NBA experience and kept his old agent as advisor.
3. New agent shops him around and got 1 lone suitor in Morey. No other GM dared to court Lin since they know that the Knicks will not be stupid enough to let him go.
4. Morey gave a verbal offer at full MLE type money in the 1st 2 years and $9M for year 3 and/or 4. Meaning the total of the contract could have been either 3 years for $20M or 4 years at $29M. Morey never sent to league and make an actual offer. Again, Lin was never given a chance to sign it or decline it.
5. Dolan through Woody informed everybody that they will match anything of up to 1 Billion dollars.
6. Lin, Lin's agent and Morey had another meeting. Morey desperately wanted to sign Lin and Asik. They messed up their Dragic and Lowry PG situation because they needed to free up money for the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. When they knew they were losing out on Dwight and they already lost their 2 PGs, they set in motion 2 identical poison pill contracts for Lin and Asik. Hoping to get 1 but not 2. These poison pill contracts are genius. They only cost the Rockets $8M per year for both players for both cap and actual money. Even with Harden now, they still have money to get a foundation player next year. They have no problems contract wise.
7. Lin signs the ONLY contract he was offered.
8. It has been discussed by NBA experts that the Knick situation is unique and poison pill contract should not affect the Knicks but would affect Chicago. The Knicks are so over the cap on year 3 that it will not affect them in any way in getting anymore players. It is only Dolan's money and since Dolan has a history of spending his money, it was a done deal that the Knicks will match.
9. For some reason, Dolan was miffed that Lin signed that contract. Maybe he felt like he was being shown up. I don't know. Knicks went ahead and sign Felton and informed the NBA that they will not match.

Good recap.

PURE KNICKS LOVE
Sportswriter "Mans Up" about Linsanity

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.