[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

dantoni new coach of Lakers
Author Thread
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27072
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/12/2012  4:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2012  4:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I hope MDA succeeds but it still won't validate anything with the type of personel he has. Give Woodson that roster he probably goes 78-4 the rest of the way

MDA doesn't need any more validation as a coach. He's shown that he can excel if you don't work against him.

Funny how things develop. Woodson can get it done with defensive talent, of which he has a BOATLOAD here in NY. MDA is a guy that excels with offensive talent and even if he only has a half decent PG he can make it work. In this case both Woodson and MDA have teams they should be able to win with cuz they have the parts they need to succeed. The one thing tho is that Kobe is not Melo. Kobe will at least give MDA 100% effort and buy in to what MDA is looking to do. Kobe will demand that every other player also buy in to what MDA is looking to do. Not having to fight your teams best player is a huge plus. Besides MDA's style is easier to grasp than the Princeton offense or the Triangle.

The Lakers are a slower team and they don't have a lot of Perimeter defense. They're probably gonna use some zones to help take some of the pressure off the guys that aren't good man defenders. If MDA can get Nate McMillan to join his staff that will help a lot.

I'm not talking about validation of him as a coach, I already know he is a good coach in the right circumstances. Im talking about his sytle of basketball winning a championship.

Woodson didn't have great defensive talent last season and got it done. While Woodson prefers defense I think he is adabtable to his personel. If he had all offensive players he would push them defensively but still play to there strengths.

AUTOADVERT
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
11/12/2012  4:20 PM
tkf wrote:I am just curious, where is there such a need here to see dantoni fail? I don't get it.. really I don't...

obviously people desperate to see the carmelo trade validated have to crap on walsh, d'antoni, gallinari, chandler, mozgov, fields, stoudemire, and douglas.

so you root for them to fail to boost carmelo's value since carmelo's value is an issue in everyone's eyes. everyone's.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27072
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/12/2012  4:25 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I hope MDA succeeds but it still won't validate anything with the type of personel he has. Give Woodson that roster he probably goes 78-4 the rest of the way

The team has looked crappy so far. They're 2-12 from the pre and regular season.

But we all know thats an aberration and a small sample size.

DJMUSIC
Posts: 22489
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/30/2007
Member: #1283

11/12/2012  4:32 PM
Caseloads wrote:Wow

Well as avid Knick fan I respectively feel MDA deserve chance again paid his dues in NBA
and was out some while before this move.

However this is NewYork/MDA Part 2 (LA Version)
yes there is more talent in West experience Lakers, yes PG S.Nash happy to be reunited with MDA
yes LA has experienced OLD d'efense players like Kobe, Dwight and Gasol.
yes both stars Kobe & Dwight used to MDA from Olympics mens team I get all that !

But MDA with all these 'older' talents and legendary Kobe isn't going to get it done unless MDA realizes
his nba system like he calls it needs tweaks for todays nba starting with defender 1st mentality and coaching.

However they wont win title with MDA system he needs to realize this is a DEFENSIVE NBA league again
moreso than few yrs back with just relying on talented players, skills and running offense the way
MDA expertise is built on.

This AINT gonna work. The MDA fallout will happen again with germ-superstar Dwight Howard
and also MDA can match that two (2) bad eggs together,

However with any the rumored demands Phil J made to LA org. is false we hear.
Back to MDA the same issues MDA had with Melo even if melo was wrong & deemed selfish lets be real
THIS & THAT wasnt ALL Melo's fault 100%. MDA has some faults into that plight and his system of basketball
hoops in this era of NBA players & talented teams.

I think Phil Action Jackon deserved the time Lakers say they would give him to make his mind up without pressures.
Beside being an ex-knick I dont care for Phil but Lakers used him here to hire MDA.

All in all Lakers was beginning to slowly turn things around in the NBA/West
but if we think for 1 sec MDA is sole one to bring Lakers to heights of their talent & quest for NBA West title
and championship soon think again.

This wont work & Howard may last 1 to 2 yrs in LA, once we all read the lines between a Dwight Howard vs MDA clash
Lets not enough talk of Future HOF Kobe, he can blend to the circumstance & Kobe wont be reason why
NewYork/MDA Part 2 'La version 1.0' fails again out west.

*Sign, great good goach in MDA whom stubborness will again be his demise.
write it in stone

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
3G4G
Posts: 23485
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2012
Member: #4333

11/12/2012  4:40 PM
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Lol. If D'Antoni didnt like Melo then he will HATE Kobe.

No post plays for Howard either.

brown deserved to be fired for implementing an offense that suited nobody. moronic

so you can't say whether bryant will balk at pick and roll guard-centric offense or not, unless you are god and know what is in a man's heart.

the difference between melo and bryant is that while both are unconscionable chuckers, the former is incapable of playmaking for others while the latter capable if not willing. so it is question of bryant's willingness not his capacity to work with nash in d'antoni's offense.

howard will be only too happy to receive perfectly-placed bounce passes in stride and rhythm as he finishes.


No coach deserves to be fired after 5gms. Lakers hired Eddie Jordan as an assistant figuring the Princeton offense could benefit the team in time. An offense Antawn Jamison and Steve Blake wer very familiar with. Lakers let go Brown's assistants from the year prior to. Let's face it everyone had an axe to grind with Brown from day 1. Magic Johnson being one of the foremost amongst Laker Nation. Brown should have never been hired in the first place if the Lakers did their homework properly.

Dwight wanted everyone to be patient and he had some pretty solid games his short stint in it. Kuptchak tried to talk them into being more patient with Brown

Mike Brown is known as a defensive specialist and the Lakers improved here as a club after he took over from Phil


Let's see Lakers's brain trust hated the Triangle offense felt it was outdated and stale.....Fired all of Phil's assistants and wanted nothing to do with anyone affiliated with Phil, even Brian Shaw someone Kobe wanted them to strongly consider. Dumped Odom, dumped Fisher, tried to dump Gasol, dumped Bynum for the sexy malcontent star(yep they starfudged like we do here), signed an over the hill point guard in Nash and other well past prime vets, hella over the cap and tax, hardly no youth going forward, not many picks in the fold


So this appears to be almost the workings of a father/son situation rivaling the Dolans in New York. Jerry Buss relinquishes the team over to his son Jim and this dude thinks he's Teflon.

Look I understand trying to do their best to stay relevant but at least be rational throughout the process.

i heard that the front office didn't want the lakers to win the next 5 games with brown at the helm because they realized their mistake in hiring him and wanted to not have to fire him should they go on said winning streak. so instead of prolonging the mistake they cut bait when the opportunity arose. yes it's cold but what is he doing not allowing the pick and roll to be front and center with nash there and with a underdeveloped howard-- someone who has little or no possibility of becoming a legitimate low post threat?

isn't it just simpler to allow gasol and howard participate in pick and rolls with bryant and nash? bryant is perfectly capable of running a pick and roll if asked to.

you get a coach who runs a princeton weave to highlight the talents of such talents as steve blake and antawn jamison?

when they acquired both howard and nash i frankly expected pick and roll to death semi-breaks and fast breaks galore.

the only thing not rational is implementing an offense that doesn't allow nash to do his thing.


Well they ran some pick and rolls here and there but the Lakers also hired Eddie Jordan.... once again a decision they made. Mike Brown typically let's his assistants do their thing. Not saying it's something a coach should or shouldn't do but for someone respected in many coaching circles not sure if this is a big a deal as made out to be. Kuester was his offensive assistant from last season, lakers let him go along with others. They hired another assistant from Orlando to help Dwight transition there.

I'm also getting tired of the pick and roll talk.

Look if every team in the NBA is running pick and roll as their staple,(most teams do) what is separating one coach from another? D'AnToni did not invent the pick and roll, he's not the coach to master it's operation or function. If all it takes is pick and roll offense to fix the Lakers then you don't need to make a mockery of hiring and firing coaches. Brown should have been fired during the summer and you hire D'AnToni or Sloan during...Sloan interviewed for the Bobcats job so he was readily available. If we're talking PNR then all roads-discussions begin and end with him the best in the business. Even Sloan didn't invent it.

There's enough blame to go around. Dwight Howard should be more developed offensively so they don't have to rely heavily on such a system, also how does PNR enhance Kobe's game or more so take advantage of his skill set? Kobe has been stubborn, Lakers had an injured Steve Nash, their bench is suspect as all get out and frankly put they're old.

This is typical mgmt incompetency and sabotaging at it's finest. I do think D'AnToni will help them because it settles them down into a base set with no pressure, in which everyone and their mom can grasp but Lakers have other major issues with their team.

nixluva
Posts: 55256
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/12/2012  4:41 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
nixluva wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I hope MDA succeeds but it still won't validate anything with the type of personel he has. Give Woodson that roster he probably goes 78-4 the rest of the way

MDA doesn't need any more validation as a coach. He's shown that he can excel if you don't work against him.

Funny how things develop. Woodson can get it done with defensive talent, of which he has a BOATLOAD here in NY. MDA is a guy that excels with offensive talent and even if he only has a half decent PG he can make it work. In this case both Woodson and MDA have teams they should be able to win with cuz they have the parts they need to succeed. The one thing tho is that Kobe is not Melo. Kobe will at least give MDA 100% effort and buy in to what MDA is looking to do. Kobe will demand that every other player also buy in to what MDA is looking to do. Not having to fight your teams best player is a huge plus. Besides MDA's style is easier to grasp than the Princeton offense or the Triangle.

The Lakers are a slower team and they don't have a lot of Perimeter defense. They're probably gonna use some zones to help take some of the pressure off the guys that aren't good man defenders. If MDA can get Nate McMillan to join his staff that will help a lot.

I'm not talking about validation of him as a coach, I already know he is a good coach in the right circumstances. Im talking about his sytle of basketball winning a championship.

Woodson didn't have great defensive talent last season and got it done. While Woodson prefers defense I think he is adabtable to his personel. If he had all offensive players he would push them defensively but still play to there strengths.

IMO it's not whether MDA's style of BB can win or not. Clearly he had a tremendous amount of success with his style. It's about the talent on the team. My contention is that his style boosts a teams talents. Guys that you wouldn't think could be successful find success in his system. MDA didn't always lose in the playoffs due to his style of play. They often got beat by better teams. Also there were some really freaky circumstances to some of his playoff losses. Most of it goes back to not have enough real depth IMO. The Suns were not a deep team for most of his tenure. Go and look at those rosters and checkout the depth and the holes at key positions.

It's not true that there wasn't some defensive talent on the Knicks last year. Tyson, Shump and Jared in particular were very good defenders and if Woody didn't have defensive talent he'd have what he had with the Hawks. You can still be somewhat successful, but limited. That's the case for all coaches.

Syniko
Posts: 20806
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Member: #3969

11/12/2012  4:46 PM
DJMUSIC wrote:
Caseloads wrote:Wow

Well as avid Knick fan I respectively feel MDA deserve chance again paid his dues in NBA
and was out some while before this move.

However this is NewYork/MDA Part 2 (LA Version)
yes there is more talent in West experience Lakers, yes PG S.Nash happy to be reunited with MDA
yes LA has experienced OLD d'efense players like Kobe, Dwight and Gasol.
yes both stars Kobe & Dwight used to MDA from Olympics mens team I get all that !

But MDA with all these 'older' talents and legendary Kobe isn't going to get it done unless MDA realizes
his nba system like he calls it needs tweaks for todays nba starting with defender 1st mentality and coaching.

However they wont win title with MDA system he needs to realize this is a DEFENSIVE NBA league again
moreso than few yrs back with just relying on talented players, skills and running offense the way
MDA expertise is built on.

This AINT gonna work. The MDA fallout will happen again with germ-superstar Dwight Howard
and also MDA can match that two (2) bad eggs together,

However with any the rumored demands Phil J made to LA org. is false we hear.
Back to MDA the same issues MDA had with Melo even if melo was wrong & deemed selfish lets be real
THIS & THAT wasnt ALL Melo's fault 100%. MDA has some faults into that plight and his system of basketball
hoops in this era of NBA players & talented teams.

I think Phil Action Jackon deserved the time Lakers say they would give him to make his mind up without pressures.
Beside being an ex-knick I dont care for Phil but Lakers used him here to hire MDA.

All in all Lakers was beginning to slowly turn things around in the NBA/West
but if we think for 1 sec MDA is sole one to bring Lakers to heights of their talent & quest for NBA West title
and championship soon think again.

This wont work & Howard may last 1 to 2 yrs in LA, once we all read the lines between a Dwight Howard vs MDA clash
Lets not enough talk of Future HOF Kobe, he can blend to the circumstance & Kobe wont be reason why
NewYork/MDA Part 2 'La version 1.0' fails again out west.

*Sign, great good goach in MDA whom stubborness will again be his demise.
write it in stone


You're forgetting one thing.

This isn't MDA/Knicks version 2.0

This is MDA/Suns version 2.0 + Kobe + Howard.

DJMUSIC
Posts: 22489
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/30/2007
Member: #1283

11/12/2012  5:06 PM
Syniko wrote:
DJMUSIC wrote:
Caseloads wrote:Wow

Well as avid Knick fan I respectively feel MDA deserve chance again paid his dues in NBA
and was out some while before this move.

However this is NewYork/MDA Part 2 (LA Version)
yes there is more talent in West experience Lakers, yes PG S.Nash happy to be reunited with MDA
yes LA has experienced OLD d'efense players like Kobe, Dwight and Gasol.
yes both stars Kobe & Dwight used to MDA from Olympics mens team I get all that !

But MDA with all these 'older' talents and legendary Kobe isn't going to get it done unless MDA realizes
his nba system like he calls it needs tweaks for todays nba starting with defender 1st mentality and coaching.

However they wont win title with MDA system he needs to realize this is a DEFENSIVE NBA league again
moreso than few yrs back with just relying on talented players, skills and running offense the way
MDA expertise is built on.

This AINT gonna work. The MDA fallout will happen again with germ-superstar Dwight Howard
and also MDA can match that two (2) bad eggs together,

However with any the rumored demands Phil J made to LA org. is false we hear.
Back to MDA the same issues MDA had with Melo even if melo was wrong & deemed selfish lets be real
THIS & THAT wasnt ALL Melo's fault 100%. MDA has some faults into that plight and his system of basketball
hoops in this era of NBA players & talented teams.

I think Phil Action Jackon deserved the time Lakers say they would give him to make his mind up without pressures.
Beside being an ex-knick I dont care for Phil but Lakers used him here to hire MDA.

All in all Lakers was beginning to slowly turn things around in the NBA/West
but if we think for 1 sec MDA is sole one to bring Lakers to heights of their talent & quest for NBA West title
and championship soon think again.

This wont work & Howard may last 1 to 2 yrs in LA, once we all read the lines between a Dwight Howard vs MDA clash
Lets not enough talk of Future HOF Kobe, he can blend to the circumstance & Kobe wont be reason why
NewYork/MDA Part 2 'La version 1.0' fails again out west.

*Sign, great good goach in MDA whom stubborness will again be his demise.
write it in stone


You're forgetting one thing.

This isn't MDA/Knicks version 2.0

This is MDA/Suns version 2.0 + Kobe + Howard.

Respectively I hear ya my brother
but even though Melo didnt have talent like Kobe/Howard is in LA,

I think you all have to have a change, coaches, players etc.

Melo as much folks hate him here tried to change late in season and shows he change somewhat hear
especially with Stout out

All I am saying is unless MDA changes a bit, use his system but less of system with a tweak and
more with defense, steals hustle basketball then it aint gonna work

As great as MDA is he's stubborn as Melo was
he need to change his coach philosophy a tad
if he dont LA Lakers in trouble. The LA team will get their wins

But they wont win prize with MDA
Its an Ok mix for now and MDA deserve chance, Lets see what happens.

I dont see MDA being a mix for Dwight and Metta Peace 2 guys with personalities 'X'
as working. MDA been known to throw players he can gel with under the bus

once Howard and Metta Peace is thrown under bus will be sign this great LA Team
will have issues which only MDA can fix. Not the players ..only, not the mgmt
but MDA who is known not to bend until he gets his way.

Today MDA is a very lucky man! He got by many yrs with team , youth, speed, offensive guru
and decent D' players like Diaw , Raja, and few others in Phoenix land whom dont need to be taught individual defense

Well nba is about success and team defense too!
Unless MDA lets a _ssistant run ALL his D schemes without overshadowing their play with run & gun, 3 pointers
then its a 'Fail' all the way.

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
11/12/2012  5:12 PM
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Lol. If D'Antoni didnt like Melo then he will HATE Kobe.

No post plays for Howard either.

brown deserved to be fired for implementing an offense that suited nobody. moronic

so you can't say whether bryant will balk at pick and roll guard-centric offense or not, unless you are god and know what is in a man's heart.

the difference between melo and bryant is that while both are unconscionable chuckers, the former is incapable of playmaking for others while the latter capable if not willing. so it is question of bryant's willingness not his capacity to work with nash in d'antoni's offense.

howard will be only too happy to receive perfectly-placed bounce passes in stride and rhythm as he finishes.


No coach deserves to be fired after 5gms. Lakers hired Eddie Jordan as an assistant figuring the Princeton offense could benefit the team in time. An offense Antawn Jamison and Steve Blake wer very familiar with. Lakers let go Brown's assistants from the year prior to. Let's face it everyone had an axe to grind with Brown from day 1. Magic Johnson being one of the foremost amongst Laker Nation. Brown should have never been hired in the first place if the Lakers did their homework properly.

Dwight wanted everyone to be patient and he had some pretty solid games his short stint in it. Kuptchak tried to talk them into being more patient with Brown

Mike Brown is known as a defensive specialist and the Lakers improved here as a club after he took over from Phil


Let's see Lakers's brain trust hated the Triangle offense felt it was outdated and stale.....Fired all of Phil's assistants and wanted nothing to do with anyone affiliated with Phil, even Brian Shaw someone Kobe wanted them to strongly consider. Dumped Odom, dumped Fisher, tried to dump Gasol, dumped Bynum for the sexy malcontent star(yep they starfudged like we do here), signed an over the hill point guard in Nash and other well past prime vets, hella over the cap and tax, hardly no youth going forward, not many picks in the fold


So this appears to be almost the workings of a father/son situation rivaling the Dolans in New York. Jerry Buss relinquishes the team over to his son Jim and this dude thinks he's Teflon.

Look I understand trying to do their best to stay relevant but at least be rational throughout the process.

i heard that the front office didn't want the lakers to win the next 5 games with brown at the helm because they realized their mistake in hiring him and wanted to not have to fire him should they go on said winning streak. so instead of prolonging the mistake they cut bait when the opportunity arose. yes it's cold but what is he doing not allowing the pick and roll to be front and center with nash there and with a underdeveloped howard-- someone who has little or no possibility of becoming a legitimate low post threat?

isn't it just simpler to allow gasol and howard participate in pick and rolls with bryant and nash? bryant is perfectly capable of running a pick and roll if asked to.

you get a coach who runs a princeton weave to highlight the talents of such talents as steve blake and antawn jamison?

when they acquired both howard and nash i frankly expected pick and roll to death semi-breaks and fast breaks galore.

the only thing not rational is implementing an offense that doesn't allow nash to do his thing.


Well they ran some pick and rolls here and there but the Lakers also hired Eddie Jordan.... once again a decision they made. Mike Brown typically let's his assistants do their thing. Not saying it's something a coach should or shouldn't do but for someone respected in many coaching circles not sure if this is a big a deal as made out to be. Kuester was his offensive assistant from last season, lakers let him go along with others. They hired another assistant from Orlando to help Dwight transition there.

I'm also getting tired of the pick and roll talk.

Look if every team in the NBA is running pick and roll as their staple,(most teams do) what is separating one coach from another? D'AnToni did not invent the pick and roll, he's not the coach to master it's operation or function. If all it takes is pick and roll offense to fix the Lakers then you don't need to make a mockery of hiring and firing coaches. Brown should have been fired during the summer and you hire D'AnToni or Sloan during...Sloan interviewed for the Bobcats job so he was readily available. If we're talking PNR then all roads-discussions begin and end with him the best in the business. Even Sloan didn't invent it.

There's enough blame to go around. Dwight Howard should be more developed offensively so they don't have to rely heavily on such a system, also how does PNR enhance Kobe's game or more so take advantage of his skill set? Kobe has been stubborn, Lakers had an injured Steve Nash, their bench is suspect as all get out and frankly put they're old.

This is typical mgmt incompetency and sabotaging at it's finest. I do think D'AnToni will help them because it settles them down into a base set with no pressure, in which everyone and their mom can grasp but Lakers have other major issues with their team.

yes most teams run the pick and roll but most teams don't have either chris paul or steve nash. that to me is the difference here: you have a player who is going to be setting up everyone better than any other PG in the league so you let him.

the key is bryant's stubborness. since he shoots off the dribble as good as anyone-- a lost art as clyde has pointed out-- then what better circumstance to do so in a pick and roll offense? and he should be able to catch and shoot with the best of them as well, at least out to 18 feet.

unless you think that bryant needs a couple of power dribbles and a completely unobstructed path to the basket then he should allow himself to transition to an "older" game and prolong his career. of course that is too logical for a guy with such an ego, but still.

howard don't get me started-- he had clifford ray at the start of his career, who was displaced by pat ewing. clifford ray goes to boston and develops kendrick perkins and ewing does absolutely and predictably nothing with howard, who in desperation seeks out the dream, alas perhaps too late. as of right now perkins has a better post up game than howard does.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Syniko
Posts: 20806
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Member: #3969

11/12/2012  5:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2012  5:16 PM
I said Suns 2.0 only because of the Nash connection.

Lin was almost Nash-like for an instance but by then MDA was already gone. MDA said the best pick and roll combo for him is Nash and Howard. He is going to utilize that to the ground. Kobe will be Kobe and he'll get his touches. Pau will fare in the system as well. Nash makes everyone around him better.


As for defense. The Lakers already have the big 3 Defender in Howard, Bryant and MWP.

DJMUSIC
Posts: 22489
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/30/2007
Member: #1283

11/12/2012  5:26 PM
Syniko wrote:I said Suns 2.0 only because of the Nash connection.

Lin was almost Nash-like for an instance but by then MDA was already gone. MDA said the best pick and roll combo for him is Nash and Howard. He is going to utilize that to the ground. Kobe will be Kobe and he'll get his touches. Pau will fare in the system as well. Nash makes everyone around him better.


As for defense. The Lakers already have the big 3 Defender in Howard, Bryant and MWP.

Lakers will have big 3 playing D
but as far as nba standards and for sucessful winning season the big 3 D' wont be because of MDA
absolutely not. No no no nope nope never !

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
IrishKnickFan
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2012
Member: #4171

11/12/2012  5:42 PM
the lakers have problems. Dwight has the back issues, nash is older now and has his own injuries. I mean they also dont have much depth. Kobe still can play but he is not the same guy anymore
3G4G
Posts: 23485
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2012
Member: #4333

11/12/2012  5:45 PM
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Lol. If D'Antoni didnt like Melo then he will HATE Kobe.

No post plays for Howard either.

brown deserved to be fired for implementing an offense that suited nobody. moronic

so you can't say whether bryant will balk at pick and roll guard-centric offense or not, unless you are god and know what is in a man's heart.

the difference between melo and bryant is that while both are unconscionable chuckers, the former is incapable of playmaking for others while the latter capable if not willing. so it is question of bryant's willingness not his capacity to work with nash in d'antoni's offense.

howard will be only too happy to receive perfectly-placed bounce passes in stride and rhythm as he finishes.


No coach deserves to be fired after 5gms. Lakers hired Eddie Jordan as an assistant figuring the Princeton offense could benefit the team in time. An offense Antawn Jamison and Steve Blake wer very familiar with. Lakers let go Brown's assistants from the year prior to. Let's face it everyone had an axe to grind with Brown from day 1. Magic Johnson being one of the foremost amongst Laker Nation. Brown should have never been hired in the first place if the Lakers did their homework properly.

Dwight wanted everyone to be patient and he had some pretty solid games his short stint in it. Kuptchak tried to talk them into being more patient with Brown

Mike Brown is known as a defensive specialist and the Lakers improved here as a club after he took over from Phil


Let's see Lakers's brain trust hated the Triangle offense felt it was outdated and stale.....Fired all of Phil's assistants and wanted nothing to do with anyone affiliated with Phil, even Brian Shaw someone Kobe wanted them to strongly consider. Dumped Odom, dumped Fisher, tried to dump Gasol, dumped Bynum for the sexy malcontent star(yep they starfudged like we do here), signed an over the hill point guard in Nash and other well past prime vets, hella over the cap and tax, hardly no youth going forward, not many picks in the fold


So this appears to be almost the workings of a father/son situation rivaling the Dolans in New York. Jerry Buss relinquishes the team over to his son Jim and this dude thinks he's Teflon.

Look I understand trying to do their best to stay relevant but at least be rational throughout the process.

i heard that the front office didn't want the lakers to win the next 5 games with brown at the helm because they realized their mistake in hiring him and wanted to not have to fire him should they go on said winning streak. so instead of prolonging the mistake they cut bait when the opportunity arose. yes it's cold but what is he doing not allowing the pick and roll to be front and center with nash there and with a underdeveloped howard-- someone who has little or no possibility of becoming a legitimate low post threat?

isn't it just simpler to allow gasol and howard participate in pick and rolls with bryant and nash? bryant is perfectly capable of running a pick and roll if asked to.

you get a coach who runs a princeton weave to highlight the talents of such talents as steve blake and antawn jamison?

when they acquired both howard and nash i frankly expected pick and roll to death semi-breaks and fast breaks galore.

the only thing not rational is implementing an offense that doesn't allow nash to do his thing.


Well they ran some pick and rolls here and there but the Lakers also hired Eddie Jordan.... once again a decision they made. Mike Brown typically let's his assistants do their thing. Not saying it's something a coach should or shouldn't do but for someone respected in many coaching circles not sure if this is a big a deal as made out to be. Kuester was his offensive assistant from last season, lakers let him go along with others. They hired another assistant from Orlando to help Dwight transition there.

I'm also getting tired of the pick and roll talk.

Look if every team in the NBA is running pick and roll as their staple,(most teams do) what is separating one coach from another? D'AnToni did not invent the pick and roll, he's not the coach to master it's operation or function. If all it takes is pick and roll offense to fix the Lakers then you don't need to make a mockery of hiring and firing coaches. Brown should have been fired during the summer and you hire D'AnToni or Sloan during...Sloan interviewed for the Bobcats job so he was readily available. If we're talking PNR then all roads-discussions begin and end with him the best in the business. Even Sloan didn't invent it.

There's enough blame to go around. Dwight Howard should be more developed offensively so they don't have to rely heavily on such a system, also how does PNR enhance Kobe's game or more so take advantage of his skill set? Kobe has been stubborn, Lakers had an injured Steve Nash, their bench is suspect as all get out and frankly put they're old.

This is typical mgmt incompetency and sabotaging at it's finest. I do think D'AnToni will help them because it settles them down into a base set with no pressure, in which everyone and their mom can grasp but Lakers have other major issues with their team.

yes most teams run the pick and roll but most teams don't have either chris paul or steve nash. that to me is the difference here: you have a player who is going to be setting up everyone better than any other PG in the league so you let him.

the key is bryant's stubborness. since he shoots off the dribble as good as anyone-- a lost art as clyde has pointed out-- then what better circumstance to do so in a pick and roll offense? and he should be able to catch and shoot with the best of them as well, at least out to 18 feet.

unless you think that bryant needs a couple of power dribbles and a completely unobstructed path to the basket then he should allow himself to transition to an "older" game and prolong his career. of course that is too logical for a guy with such an ego, but still.

howard don't get me started-- he had clifford ray at the start of his career, who was displaced by pat ewing. clifford ray goes to boston and develops kendrick perkins and ewing does absolutely and predictably nothing with howard, who in desperation seeks out the dream, alas perhaps too late. as of right now perkins has a better post up game than howard does.

If it's about having CP3 or Steve Nash and Kobe's stubbornness then it's not really about the coach. Especially when Nash was hurting.

Knixkik
Posts: 28473
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
11/12/2012  5:46 PM
If you're playing GM for the Lakers, there's some real interesting possibilities out there with Pau Gasol now that MDA is in the picture. Gasol to Toronto for Bargnani (stretch 4) and Calderon (insurance for Nash, final year of contract.) I think it makes sense for both teams. Or Gasol to New Orleans for Ryan Andersen, R Lopez, and fillers. Both deals give Lakers PFs who can shoot and fit MDA's style and some extra depth which is needed there in general with the age of the core players. Other teams would have to consider because they are getting the best player in the trade. Gasol gives Toronto instant respect and could fit nicely at center next to Davis.
nixluva
Posts: 55256
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/12/2012  5:48 PM
DJMUSIC wrote:
Syniko wrote:I said Suns 2.0 only because of the Nash connection.

Lin was almost Nash-like for an instance but by then MDA was already gone. MDA said the best pick and roll combo for him is Nash and Howard. He is going to utilize that to the ground. Kobe will be Kobe and he'll get his touches. Pau will fare in the system as well. Nash makes everyone around him better.


As for defense. The Lakers already have the big 3 Defender in Howard, Bryant and MWP.

Lakers will have big 3 playing D
but as far as nba standards and for sucessful winning season the big 3 D' wont be because of MDA
absolutely not. No no no nope nope never !

MDA is not as bad on D as so many seem to think. It's been highly overstated. But all the doubters can keep on thinking that if they wish. He'll have some defensive talent to work with and that's at least a start. Last season was the 1st time MDA had a real defensive Center to anchor his defense. I think he'll be able to figure it out with the Lakers roster too.

As for MDA being stubborn, he's not the only head coach that has that trait. However, this is also a much overstated point. Here in NY he adapted his offense many times to try and make allowances for the lack of talent. However, there are limits to how far he wanted to go away from his system. Just like PJax loves the Triangle, sometimes a coach is convinced of the value of a style of play and will stick with it. That's not a bad thing necessarily.

tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/12/2012  5:52 PM
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:I am just curious, where is there such a need here to see dantoni fail? I don't get it.. really I don't...

obviously people desperate to see the carmelo trade validated have to crap on walsh, d'antoni, gallinari, chandler, mozgov, fields, stoudemire, and douglas.

so you root for them to fail to boost carmelo's value since carmelo's value is an issue in everyone's eyes. everyone's.

yea pretty much figured that.. just had to ask... I mean if you have to root for others to fail in order to validate moves you agree with, isn't that a "fail' in itself?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
IrishKnickFan
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2012
Member: #4171

11/12/2012  6:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2012  6:01 PM
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:I am just curious, where is there such a need here to see dantoni fail? I don't get it.. really I don't...

obviously people desperate to see the carmelo trade validated have to crap on walsh, d'antoni, gallinari, chandler, mozgov, fields, stoudemire, and douglas.

so you root for them to fail to boost carmelo's value since carmelo's value is an issue in everyone's eyes. everyone's.

yea pretty much figured that.. just had to ask... I mean if you have to root for others to fail in order to validate moves you agree with, isn't that a "fail' in itself?

usually i dont agree but on this one i do. Even though MDA needed to go i still wish the guy well. He is a good guy and has had a pretty good career as a coach even though he lacks defensive instincts

Nalod
Posts: 54088
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/12/2012  6:43 PM
I was thinking how silly it was to fire Brown 5 games in but they have to protect Dwight and keep him.

So Im thinking Dwight and Kobe had a big hand in who came next.

Kobe idolized MDA growing up and had him as olympic coach. They get it. This is about buy in and keeping Dwight beyond the season.

Regarding Jax and what happened there? Who knows! Maybe just a way to keep MDA's price down?

Why bring in the triangle if you have Nash? Lakes are all in with Nash. Dwight, Kobe and Nash all in?

Then its the right call.

They going to score alot of points. They going to give up a lot also.

Cool!

Anger sells, don't buy!
nixluva
Posts: 55256
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/12/2012  6:45 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:I am just curious, where is there such a need here to see dantoni fail? I don't get it.. really I don't...

obviously people desperate to see the carmelo trade validated have to crap on walsh, d'antoni, gallinari, chandler, mozgov, fields, stoudemire, and douglas.

so you root for them to fail to boost carmelo's value since carmelo's value is an issue in everyone's eyes. everyone's.

yea pretty much figured that.. just had to ask... I mean if you have to root for others to fail in order to validate moves you agree with, isn't that a "fail' in itself?

usually i dont agree but on this one i do. Even though MDA needed to go i still wish the guy well. He is a good guy and has had a pretty good career as a coach even though he lacks defensive instincts


MDA doesn't lack defensive instincts. His defense is actually the same as the one Woody has. The difference is mainly in the point of emphasis and talent. The more defensive talent you have the better your team is going to be on defense. If you have short and slow players you can preach D all you want but it's not gonna make that much of a difference. You need good defensive players. That's why MDA wanted Jared and why he also picked Shump in the draft when Walsh left it up to MDA to make the final decision. He had good perimeter defenders in Raja, Marion and Hill and if he had a defensive Center like Tyson they might have won a title in PHX. No matter what people think, it's impossible to win 62 games and get to the WCF's only playing offense.
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
11/12/2012  7:06 PM
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:I am just curious, where is there such a need here to see dantoni fail? I don't get it.. really I don't...

obviously people desperate to see the carmelo trade validated have to crap on walsh, d'antoni, gallinari, chandler, mozgov, fields, stoudemire, and douglas.

so you root for them to fail to boost carmelo's value since carmelo's value is an issue in everyone's eyes. everyone's.

yea pretty much figured that.. just had to ask... I mean if you have to root for others to fail in order to validate moves you agree with, isn't that a "fail' in itself?

it's a lack of confidence on their part combined with an inferiority complex. if he was all that and had actually a genuine track record of success there would be no issue. if he actually had demonstrated that he knows how to play ball the right way i would have been okay with a trade. but since he has not shown that he knows how to play the right way, free agency was the only logical route to take with this sort of player, especially since he did not fit in with the blueprint that walsh had laid down, and after all that cash was committed to amare. i would have been okay with free agency but apparently dolan and melo had entirely different ideas on how to build a winner... or maybe neither had any idea at all how to build a winner and both just like money and power above all else.

i mean look at the track record here: dolan now has two isaiah thomas co-alums slash cronies as gm and coach, and he forced this coach to change representation as a condition for employment. it's sickening. meanwhile melo, after forcing his way here and decimating the squad that walsh was patiently building, refused to be the good soldier and do the best he could to work with the coach even under challenging circumstances, forcing the coach's hand by basically not giving 100% effort. when it comes to melo's 20 million and d'antoni's several million i wonder who is going to win that battle? and the lin fiasco? just another straw on the camel's back for both dolan and melo.

ahh life

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dantoni new coach of Lakers

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.