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Rockets reach deal with Harden 5YRs/80 mil..WOW...
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CrushAlot
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11/1/2012  11:37 PM
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Lin stated many times he wanted to be here - those comments. No offer was made, that is the proof of no good will gesture. If I am the owner I am going all out to let this Kid know we want him back. I'm on TV, I'm attending games and I am talking with him. That never happened.

No, he signed a contract that was offered. Poison pill is a matter of perspective. Dolan is a billionaire, it was more like a stomach discomfort pill.

Why do you keep trying with these boyfriend girlfriend analogies, or is it now an actual piece of wisdom from you? ehehehehh Thanks though, I'm here with no VD. I am still a bit pissed at Dolan. Hopefully we have some fun play out there with the new guys and we can get off the Lin thing.

Seriously, do you understand the Knicks could not offer him a contract??..also, I think Lin is full of shet...

You are correct in that they couldn't present a formal offer but publicly besides bluffing with the threat of matching as we found out it wasn't real or genuine....prior to what they could have done is spoke on his situation and said something to this effect...


"We personally feel Jeremy is worth most if not all the money he's entitled to receive and we look forward to the opportunity to show him how valuable he is to our organization."


When it came time to give Amar'e and Melo all the money they were entitled to, did this organization show in any way they were bluffing? No they didn't no need for Lin since we knew before going into the summer what his financial and our financial situation was.


If there were any reservations to not keeping him, you make sure the relationship is maintained with Lin and his agent to work out a S&T, you know like OKC did with James and Pelinka. You don't let him walk for nothing no matter how much of a BSer you think, you're dealing with.

Listen, JR and Novak deals went under the radar..No statements, no fuss, their deals got done, no problem...But for Lin we have to put on a Circus...U guys are now convincing me why I now don't want this guy here...He is special and needs to be treated that way...Thank the good lord he is gone...Dolan is my hero...I will never say another bad word about Dolan...Freaking guy wants to be treated like a Prima Donna..Get a stepping!!!!..Learn to dribble..

Your comparisons are simply awful. Lin's contract situation to Novak and J.R.'s is completely different. They was no need to pull a circus out with Smith nor Novak they had different contract situations. Simplistic contract deals. Keeping it rea.... publicly stating what I said is not pulling a circus. You want to know what Banum's and Baley's?

The first making it known how the organization was trying to talk him into signing with CAA to negotiate a deal. That shouldn't have been made public but it was because he chose his own agent. We went shady first. Then Inviting him to dinner.....Woody making that meeting public stating we're matching and he wants Lin back. No need to do that. You make a public statement as I mentioned above on his situation early, genuine and not threatening and stand by it. No need to keep repeating it over and over during the summer in a NO YOU WON'T style, no need to take him out for a Ruth Chris Steak dinner. You let him go shop his value no matter how it's done and you make a decision. If you have a change of heart(for whatever bogus reason) you get value back for him no matter what.

We're idiots forever on how this turned out POINT BLANK PERIOD!

He isn't worth all the hoopla...I'm now glad is gone...Good Riddance!!!!..Learn to dribble!!!


He's worth getting value in return.... Hoopla Schmoopla!

If the Knicks matched that offer who trades for him other than the Rockets? The Knicks aren't allowed to trade him to the Rockets because of the new cba. Who takes on a deal with a third year for 15 mil when the cap becomes so punitive and restrictive in that year?

His cap hit is $8.3mil Crush please let it get through somehow. It's not $14.8mil it's an $8.3mil cap hit.

If the Knicks signed him it was 15 mil in year three. Not sure how that changes for a team that signs and trades for him so the Knicks can get value after the knicks match the contract. I am not saying it doesn't but I would need it explained. I haven't seen anything about a contract once in place changing because another team is under the cap. Nothing to let go either. His hit was 15 mil for the KNicks in year three. Its why year three was called the poison pill.

Dude it was going to be a Tax Hit for us no doubt because of where our overall team salary but in terms of trade value to teams and our cap hit, average salary per year is how it's calculated....


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87


Cap Hits and Tax Hits are not factored equally. His salary was going to be....


Tax Hit

$5mil(salary added to our team salary dollar for dollar)
$5.25mil"..."
$14.9mil"..."


Cap Hit

$8.3mil(our cap hit value and his trade value figure to whatever team he's traded to.... his trade value for us is $5mil in this year)
$8.3mil"..."
$8.3mil"..."


At least this is how I understand this to be.

YOu are mistaken. There is a loop hole that allows his contract to be averaged out to 8.3 mil for the Rockets because they are under the cap. They used the same loophole to sign Asik. However, the actual contract and year 3 was set up to be 15 mil. I thought that was common knowledge with all of the articles regarding the poison pill. My question to you is, what team takes on Lin with a year three 15 mil hit. Unless I missed something, once a player is signed to a contract the parameters don't change if they are traded. I believe the loophole only applied to Houston. Hoopshype doesn't recognize the loophole but this is their salary figures for Lin. They are not tax hit figures.

Houston Rockets Salaries
Check the latest Houston Rockets Rumors

Key: Player Option / Team Option / Qualifying Offer / AmnestiedTea TeamsAtlantaBostonBrooklynCharlotteChicagoClevelandDallasDenverDetroitGolden StateHoustonIndianaLA ClippersLA LakersMemphisMiamiMilwaukeeMinnesotaNew OrleansNew YorkOklahoma CityOrlandoPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandSacramentoSan AntonioTorontoUtahWashington


Player

Jeremy Lin

$5,000,000

$5,225,000

$14,898,938

I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
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3G4G
Posts: 23485
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Joined: 9/3/2012
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11/1/2012  11:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  11:59 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Lin stated many times he wanted to be here - those comments. No offer was made, that is the proof of no good will gesture. If I am the owner I am going all out to let this Kid know we want him back. I'm on TV, I'm attending games and I am talking with him. That never happened.

No, he signed a contract that was offered. Poison pill is a matter of perspective. Dolan is a billionaire, it was more like a stomach discomfort pill.

Why do you keep trying with these boyfriend girlfriend analogies, or is it now an actual piece of wisdom from you? ehehehehh Thanks though, I'm here with no VD. I am still a bit pissed at Dolan. Hopefully we have some fun play out there with the new guys and we can get off the Lin thing.

Seriously, do you understand the Knicks could not offer him a contract??..also, I think Lin is full of shet...

You are correct in that they couldn't present a formal offer but publicly besides bluffing with the threat of matching as we found out it wasn't real or genuine....prior to what they could have done is spoke on his situation and said something to this effect...


"We personally feel Jeremy is worth most if not all the money he's entitled to receive and we look forward to the opportunity to show him how valuable he is to our organization."


When it came time to give Amar'e and Melo all the money they were entitled to, did this organization show in any way they were bluffing? No they didn't no need for Lin since we knew before going into the summer what his financial and our financial situation was.


If there were any reservations to not keeping him, you make sure the relationship is maintained with Lin and his agent to work out a S&T, you know like OKC did with James and Pelinka. You don't let him walk for nothing no matter how much of a BSer you think, you're dealing with.

Listen, JR and Novak deals went under the radar..No statements, no fuss, their deals got done, no problem...But for Lin we have to put on a Circus...U guys are now convincing me why I now don't want this guy here...He is special and needs to be treated that way...Thank the good lord he is gone...Dolan is my hero...I will never say another bad word about Dolan...Freaking guy wants to be treated like a Prima Donna..Get a stepping!!!!..Learn to dribble..

Your comparisons are simply awful. Lin's contract situation to Novak and J.R.'s is completely different. They was no need to pull a circus out with Smith nor Novak they had different contract situations. Simplistic contract deals. Keeping it rea.... publicly stating what I said is not pulling a circus. You want to know what Banum's and Baley's?

The first making it known how the organization was trying to talk him into signing with CAA to negotiate a deal. That shouldn't have been made public but it was because he chose his own agent. We went shady first. Then Inviting him to dinner.....Woody making that meeting public stating we're matching and he wants Lin back. No need to do that. You make a public statement as I mentioned above on his situation early, genuine and not threatening and stand by it. No need to keep repeating it over and over during the summer in a NO YOU WON'T style, no need to take him out for a Ruth Chris Steak dinner. You let him go shop his value no matter how it's done and you make a decision. If you have a change of heart(for whatever bogus reason) you get value back for him no matter what.

We're idiots forever on how this turned out POINT BLANK PERIOD!

He isn't worth all the hoopla...I'm now glad is gone...Good Riddance!!!!..Learn to dribble!!!


He's worth getting value in return.... Hoopla Schmoopla!

If the Knicks matched that offer who trades for him other than the Rockets? The Knicks aren't allowed to trade him to the Rockets because of the new cba. Who takes on a deal with a third year for 15 mil when the cap becomes so punitive and restrictive in that year?

His cap hit is $8.3mil Crush please let it get through somehow. It's not $14.8mil it's an $8.3mil cap hit.

If the Knicks signed him it was 15 mil in year three. Not sure how that changes for a team that signs and trades for him so the Knicks can get value after the knicks match the contract. I am not saying it doesn't but I would need it explained. I haven't seen anything about a contract once in place changing because another team is under the cap. Nothing to let go either. His hit was 15 mil for the KNicks in year three. Its why year three was called the poison pill.

Dude it was going to be a Tax Hit for us no doubt because of where our overall team salary but in terms of trade value to teams and our cap hit, average salary per year is how it's calculated....


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87


Cap Hits and Tax Hits are not factored equally. His salary was going to be....


Tax Hit

$5mil(salary added to our team salary dollar for dollar)
$5.25mil"..."
$14.9mil"..."


Cap Hit

$8.3mil(our cap hit value and his trade value figure to whatever team he's traded to.... his trade value for us is $5mil in this year)
$8.3mil"..."
$8.3mil"..."


At least this is how I understand this to be.

YOu are mistaken. There is a loop hole that allows his contract to be averaged out to 8.3 mil for the Rockets because they are under the cap. They used the same loophole to sign Asik. However, the actual contract and year 3 was set up to be 15 mil. I thought that was common knowledge with all of the articles regarding the poison pill. My question to you is, what team takes on Lin with a year three 15 mil hit. Unless I missed something, once a player is signed to a contract the parameters don't change if they are traded. I believe the loophole only applied to Houston. Hoopshype doesn't recognize the loophole but this is their salary figures for Lin. They are not tax hit figures.

Houston Rockets Salaries
Check the latest Houston Rockets Rumors

Key: Player Option / Team Option / Qualifying Offer / AmnestiedTea TeamsAtlantaBostonBrooklynCharlotteChicagoClevelandDallasDenverDetroitGolden StateHoustonIndianaLA ClippersLA LakersMemphisMiamiMilwaukeeMinnesotaNew OrleansNew YorkOklahoma CityOrlandoPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandSacramentoSan AntonioTorontoUtahWashington


Player

Jeremy Lin

$5,000,000

$5,225,000

$14,898,938


It's obvious you're stubborn and not even following the link provided so I'll post exactly what it says from Coon himself....


If a team extends a first round draft pick's rookie scale contract (see question number 58) and then trades the player between the date the extension is signed and the date it takes effect, the player's trade value for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the rookie scale contract and each year of the extension. This is called the Poison Pill provision. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their total outgoing salary. They use the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

For example, if a player on the last year of his rookie scale contract earns $2 million in 2011-12, and his contract is extended for four seasons starting at $10 million, with 4.5% raises, then his salary in each season will be:

Season Salary
2011-12 $2,000,000
2012-13 $10,000,000
2013-14 $10,450,000
2014-15 $10,900,000
2015-16 $11,350,000


If this player is traded during the 2011-12 season, then his outgoing salary from the sending team's perspective is his actual salary -- $2 million. But the player's incoming salary from the receiving team's perspective is $8.94 million -- the average of all five seasons. Such a player would be very difficult to trade -- a legal trade can only be accomplished if both teams add additional salary to the transaction, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.


The rule is not exclusive to a team having to be under the Cap although teams that are make trading for him much easier.


The only reason this example from Coon is tough because the team trading player 3mos after signing the deal(I believe earliest he could be traded) has a player making $2mil that season and extended him up to $10mil the following seasons. In Lins case his average salary $8.3mil is closer to $5mil than $2mil is to $8.94mil much easier to pull off a trade.

The only concern for the team trading for him is where they are at in relation to the Tax come poison pill year. So say a team traded for Lin at the deadline and had $50mil committed by that 3rd yr. Well essentially they'd be adding another $15mil in Lin's salary. That's okay because they are still under the Lux Tax by at least $5mil and his cap hit to them is $8.3mil...not $15mil. But yes they do have to come out of pocket to pay him $15mil of actual salary/pay.

CrushAlot
Posts: 55236
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Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
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11/2/2012  12:02 AM
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
3G4G wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Lin stated many times he wanted to be here - those comments. No offer was made, that is the proof of no good will gesture. If I am the owner I am going all out to let this Kid know we want him back. I'm on TV, I'm attending games and I am talking with him. That never happened.

No, he signed a contract that was offered. Poison pill is a matter of perspective. Dolan is a billionaire, it was more like a stomach discomfort pill.

Why do you keep trying with these boyfriend girlfriend analogies, or is it now an actual piece of wisdom from you? ehehehehh Thanks though, I'm here with no VD. I am still a bit pissed at Dolan. Hopefully we have some fun play out there with the new guys and we can get off the Lin thing.

Seriously, do you understand the Knicks could not offer him a contract??..also, I think Lin is full of shet...

You are correct in that they couldn't present a formal offer but publicly besides bluffing with the threat of matching as we found out it wasn't real or genuine....prior to what they could have done is spoke on his situation and said something to this effect...


"We personally feel Jeremy is worth most if not all the money he's entitled to receive and we look forward to the opportunity to show him how valuable he is to our organization."


When it came time to give Amar'e and Melo all the money they were entitled to, did this organization show in any way they were bluffing? No they didn't no need for Lin since we knew before going into the summer what his financial and our financial situation was.


If there were any reservations to not keeping him, you make sure the relationship is maintained with Lin and his agent to work out a S&T, you know like OKC did with James and Pelinka. You don't let him walk for nothing no matter how much of a BSer you think, you're dealing with.

Listen, JR and Novak deals went under the radar..No statements, no fuss, their deals got done, no problem...But for Lin we have to put on a Circus...U guys are now convincing me why I now don't want this guy here...He is special and needs to be treated that way...Thank the good lord he is gone...Dolan is my hero...I will never say another bad word about Dolan...Freaking guy wants to be treated like a Prima Donna..Get a stepping!!!!..Learn to dribble..

Your comparisons are simply awful. Lin's contract situation to Novak and J.R.'s is completely different. They was no need to pull a circus out with Smith nor Novak they had different contract situations. Simplistic contract deals. Keeping it rea.... publicly stating what I said is not pulling a circus. You want to know what Banum's and Baley's?

The first making it known how the organization was trying to talk him into signing with CAA to negotiate a deal. That shouldn't have been made public but it was because he chose his own agent. We went shady first. Then Inviting him to dinner.....Woody making that meeting public stating we're matching and he wants Lin back. No need to do that. You make a public statement as I mentioned above on his situation early, genuine and not threatening and stand by it. No need to keep repeating it over and over during the summer in a NO YOU WON'T style, no need to take him out for a Ruth Chris Steak dinner. You let him go shop his value no matter how it's done and you make a decision. If you have a change of heart(for whatever bogus reason) you get value back for him no matter what.

We're idiots forever on how this turned out POINT BLANK PERIOD!

He isn't worth all the hoopla...I'm now glad is gone...Good Riddance!!!!..Learn to dribble!!!


He's worth getting value in return.... Hoopla Schmoopla!

If the Knicks matched that offer who trades for him other than the Rockets? The Knicks aren't allowed to trade him to the Rockets because of the new cba. Who takes on a deal with a third year for 15 mil when the cap becomes so punitive and restrictive in that year?

His cap hit is $8.3mil Crush please let it get through somehow. It's not $14.8mil it's an $8.3mil cap hit.

If the Knicks signed him it was 15 mil in year three. Not sure how that changes for a team that signs and trades for him so the Knicks can get value after the knicks match the contract. I am not saying it doesn't but I would need it explained. I haven't seen anything about a contract once in place changing because another team is under the cap. Nothing to let go either. His hit was 15 mil for the KNicks in year three. Its why year three was called the poison pill.

Dude it was going to be a Tax Hit for us no doubt because of where our overall team salary but in terms of trade value to teams and our cap hit, average salary per year is how it's calculated....


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87


Cap Hits and Tax Hits are not factored equally. His salary was going to be....


Tax Hit

$5mil(salary added to our team salary dollar for dollar)
$5.25mil"..."
$14.9mil"..."


Cap Hit

$8.3mil(our cap hit value and his trade value figure to whatever team he's traded to.... his trade value for us is $5mil in this year)
$8.3mil"..."
$8.3mil"..."


At least this is how I understand this to be.

YOu are mistaken. There is a loop hole that allows his contract to be averaged out to 8.3 mil for the Rockets because they are under the cap. They used the same loophole to sign Asik. However, the actual contract and year 3 was set up to be 15 mil. I thought that was common knowledge with all of the articles regarding the poison pill. My question to you is, what team takes on Lin with a year three 15 mil hit. Unless I missed something, once a player is signed to a contract the parameters don't change if they are traded. I believe the loophole only applied to Houston. Hoopshype doesn't recognize the loophole but this is their salary figures for Lin. They are not tax hit figures.

Houston Rockets Salaries
Check the latest Houston Rockets Rumors

Key: Player Option / Team Option / Qualifying Offer / AmnestiedTea TeamsAtlantaBostonBrooklynCharlotteChicagoClevelandDallasDenverDetroitGolden StateHoustonIndianaLA ClippersLA LakersMemphisMiamiMilwaukeeMinnesotaNew OrleansNew YorkOklahoma CityOrlandoPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandSacramentoSan AntonioTorontoUtahWashington


Player

Jeremy Lin

$5,000,000

$5,225,000

$14,898,938


It's obvious you're stubborn and not even following the links so I'll post exactly what it say from Coon himself....


If a team extends a first round draft pick's rookie scale contract (see question number 58) and then trades the player between the date the extension is signed and the date it takes effect, the player's trade value for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the rookie scale contract and each year of the extension. This is called the Poison Pill provision. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their total outgoing salary. They use the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

For example, if a player on the last year of his rookie scale contract earns $2 million in 2011-12, and his contract is extended for four seasons starting at $10 million, with 4.5% raises, then his salary in each season will be:

Season Salary
2011-12 $2,000,000
2012-13 $10,000,000
2013-14 $10,450,000
2014-15 $10,900,000
2015-16 $11,350,000


If this player is traded during the 2011-12 season, then his outgoing salary from the sending team's perspective is his actual salary -- $2 million. But the player's incoming salary from the receiving team's perspective is $8.94 million -- the average of all five seasons. Such a player would be very difficult to trade -- a legal trade can only be accomplished if both teams add additional salary to the transaction, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.


The rule is not exclusive to a team having to be under the Cap although teams that are make trading for him much easier.


The only reason this example from Coon is tough because the team trading player 3mos after signing the deal(I believe earliest he could be traded) has a player making $2mil that season and extended him up to $10mil the following seasons. In Lins case his average salary $8.3mil is closer to $5mil than $2mil is to $8.94mil much easier to pull off a trade.

The only concern for the team trading for him is where they are at in relation to the Tax come poison pill year. So say a team traded for Lin at the deadline and had $50mil committed by that 3rd yr. Well essentially they'd be adding another $15mil in Lin's salary. That's okay because they are still under the Lux Tax by at least $5mil and his cap hit to them is $8.3mil...not $15mil. But yes they do have to come out of pocket to pay him $15mil of actual salary/pay.

I can be stubborn but I just missed your link. Do you know if that provision applied to Lin? He won early bird rights. Coon advocated for the Knicks to sign Lin but suggested the Knicks use the stretch provision in yr 3 if things were not working out.

I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
knickstorrents
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Hong Kong
11/2/2012  1:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2012  2:12 AM
I see we have people on both sides of the fence really worked up about Lin (even though from the title this is a Harden thread?). The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever. During that run I forgot about all the crappy years of bad Knicks baskeball I (WE) suffered through - the Layden Era (Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Clarence Witherspoon and co.), the McDyess trade aftermath, the Isaiah Thomas/Starbury/Curry/Zach Randolph combo, and now the current non working Stat/Melo combo.

That Linsanity run was a time when I forgot all about that. I just watched my Knicks play great team basketball, all the players seemed to truly enjoy themselves. The Knicks were winning and the basketball was flowing. It was something I hadn't seen in recent memory - beautiful Knicks basketball. When was the last time you saw this? Re-runs of Clyde is the only time I saw the Knicks play that way.

To the Lin haters - maybe you are mad because you also felt this way and are subconsciously trying to justify the horrible outcome? It's ok to come out and say Dolan was an idiot. History and facts would be on your side. There's no need to defend him. Just remember what Lin gave us, be sad that it's over, and blame it on Dolan.

At least, that's the only way I can deal with it.

Rose is not the answer.
earthmansurfer
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Germany
11/2/2012  5:21 AM
knickstorrents wrote:I see we have people on both sides of the fence really worked up about Lin (even though from the title this is a Harden thread?). The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever. During that run I forgot about all the crappy years of bad Knicks baskeball I (WE) suffered through - the Layden Era (Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Clarence Witherspoon and co.), the McDyess trade aftermath, the Isaiah Thomas/Starbury/Curry/Zach Randolph combo, and now the current non working Stat/Melo combo.

That Linsanity run was a time when I forgot all about that. I just watched my Knicks play great team basketball, all the players seemed to truly enjoy themselves. The Knicks were winning and the basketball was flowing. It was something I hadn't seen in recent memory - beautiful Knicks basketball. When was the last time you saw this? Re-runs of Clyde is the only time I saw the Knicks play that way.

To the Lin haters - maybe you are mad because you also felt this way and are subconsciously trying to justify the horrible outcome? It's ok to come out and say Dolan was an idiot. History and facts would be on your side. There's no need to defend him. Just remember what Lin gave us, be sad that it's over, and blame it on Dolan.

At least, that's the only way I can deal with it.

Extremely well put and Heartful and if us being over the cap 3 years from now does cost the Knicks money, considering what Lin had done and will do for the franchise/team/etc., it will be the best money we ever spent. You reward that type of player, not Eddy Curry's, Jerome James, etc types of players. You take that chance. You take Lin's salary with the biggest smile you ever had, cause he had done more than any player for the Knicks in my lifetime as far as bringing fans back and making the game fun to watch.

Look at all the Knicks boards, it is pretty clear the fan base is pissed off about the Lin debacle. And Dolan is going to be feeling that for a while I venture.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Gymkata
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11/2/2012  7:43 AM
knickstorrents wrote:When was the last time you saw this?

I saw better. The 1999 run and the sustained success in the '90s laugh at Linsanity.

And if I was around for Clyde's teams, those would be number one.

"I can not say all the secrets."
NYKBocker
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11/2/2012  8:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2012  8:10 AM
holfresh wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Lin stated many times he wanted to be here - those comments. No offer was made, that is the proof of no good will gesture. If I am the owner I am going all out to let this Kid know we want him back. I'm on TV, I'm attending games and I am talking with him. That never happened.

No, he signed a contract that was offered. Poison pill is a matter of perspective. Dolan is a billionaire, it was more like a stomach discomfort pill.

Why do you keep trying with these boyfriend girlfriend analogies, or is it now an actual piece of wisdom from you? ehehehehh Thanks though, I'm here with no VD. I am still a bit pissed at Dolan. Hopefully we have some fun play out there with the new guys and we can get off the Lin thing.

Seriously, do you understand the Knicks could not offer him a contract??..also, I think Lin is full of shet...

Actually, they could have offered Lin their full MLE. They did not do that.

Ur pulling my leg right???

They could have offered him that and if Lin said "NO" then I can see where fans would get pissed. They told him to go out and find your value in the open market and they will match anything up to a billion dollars. What would you have done?

Also, you think Lin is full of shet? So you trust Dolan and his cronies more?

earthmansurfer
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11/2/2012  8:14 AM
Gymkata wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:When was the last time you saw this?

I saw better. The 1999 run and the sustained success in the '90s laugh at Linsanity.

And if I was around for Clyde's teams, those would be number one.

99 was great as was the 90's. But, that was an incredible team, great players across the board. Lin was more like a Cinderella story - hard to compare the two. We sort of put Cinderella out on the streets and that don't sit good with many fans. Whether or not you put what Lin and the team did last year above or below the 90's teams, isn't really the issue. They are in the same context if nothing else. You don't let that 90's team walk, just like you don't let Lin walk. They were both magical. NYKBocker's post above says it nicely, amongst others.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Gymkata
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11/2/2012  9:02 AM
This is what he said:

knickstorrents wrote:The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever.

That's what I was responding to.

I greatly enjoyed the Lin saga, but in my mind I knew it was fleeting. It wasn't that I didn't think he'd be a good player; he's going to be a solid pro actually and I would have liked to see him stick around.

But as fun as that 25 game run was, it's nothing compared to the sheer magic of the 99 run (really, just take a moment and think about the memories from that postseason) or the bad-ass Knicks games of the 90s, where you knew every game was likely going to end in a win and/or someone on the opposing team on the floor, weeping.

Cinderella is great--but give me the Wicked Witch any day.

"I can not say all the secrets."
ramtour420
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11/2/2012  10:12 AM
Gymkata wrote:This is what he said:

knickstorrents wrote:The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever.

That's what I was responding to.

I greatly enjoyed the Lin saga, but in my mind I knew it was fleeting. It wasn't that I didn't think he'd be a good player; he's going to be a solid pro actually and I would have liked to see him stick around.

But as fun as that 25 game run was, it's nothing compared to the sheer magic of the 99 run (really, just take a moment and think about the memories from that postseason) or the bad-ass Knicks games of the 90s, where you knew every game was likely going to end in a win and/or someone on the opposing team on the floor, weeping.

Cinderella is great--but give me the Wicked Witch any day.

I like Cinderella. With MDA as the fairy godmother, Melo as the mean sister in law, and Dolan as the stepmother who allowed our Cinderella to try on the slipper.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
Gymkata
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11/2/2012  10:18 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
Gymkata wrote:This is what he said:

knickstorrents wrote:The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever.

That's what I was responding to.

I greatly enjoyed the Lin saga, but in my mind I knew it was fleeting. It wasn't that I didn't think he'd be a good player; he's going to be a solid pro actually and I would have liked to see him stick around.

But as fun as that 25 game run was, it's nothing compared to the sheer magic of the 99 run (really, just take a moment and think about the memories from that postseason) or the bad-ass Knicks games of the 90s, where you knew every game was likely going to end in a win and/or someone on the opposing team on the floor, weeping.

Cinderella is great--but give me the Wicked Witch any day.

I like Cinderella. With MDA as the fairy godmother, Melo as the mean sister in law, and Dolan as the stepmother who allowed our Cinderella to try on the slipper.

And Eddy Curry turned into a pumpkin!

"I can not say all the secrets."
ramtour420
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11/2/2012  11:02 AM
Gymkata wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Gymkata wrote:This is what he said:

knickstorrents wrote:The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever.

That's what I was responding to.

I greatly enjoyed the Lin saga, but in my mind I knew it was fleeting. It wasn't that I didn't think he'd be a good player; he's going to be a solid pro actually and I would have liked to see him stick around.

But as fun as that 25 game run was, it's nothing compared to the sheer magic of the 99 run (really, just take a moment and think about the memories from that postseason) or the bad-ass Knicks games of the 90s, where you knew every game was likely going to end in a win and/or someone on the opposing team on the floor, weeping.

Cinderella is great--but give me the Wicked Witch any day.

I like Cinderella. With MDA as the fairy godmother, Melo as the mean sister in law, and Dolan as the stepmother who allowed our Cinderella to try on the slipper.

And Eddy Curry turned into a pumpkin!

Exactly !

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
earthmansurfer
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11/2/2012  2:18 PM
Gymkata wrote:This is what he said:

knickstorrents wrote:The Linsanity run was the best thing I saw happen to the Knicks - ever.

That's what I was responding to.

I greatly enjoyed the Lin saga, but in my mind I knew it was fleeting. It wasn't that I didn't think he'd be a good player; he's going to be a solid pro actually and I would have liked to see him stick around.

But as fun as that 25 game run was, it's nothing compared to the sheer magic of the 99 run (really, just take a moment and think about the memories from that postseason) or the bad-ass Knicks games of the 90s, where you knew every game was likely going to end in a win and/or someone on the opposing team on the floor, weeping.

Cinderella is great--but give me the Wicked Witch any day.

We can agree to disagree on which was better, but it's completely subjective anyway. The thing about the 90's run was we had talent. They were great games for sure, but we had talent. With Lin we had Melo and Amare out and the kid was like a gift thrown to the team. A real life Rudy. Everyone loved that time. It was the best thing I had experienced (or up there anyway) in any sport I can remember.

I know what you mean though, something made me feel they wouldn't bring him back. I think it's that sixth sense that this is Melo's team and Dolan is behind that 100%. Sort of ironic when you think Lin actually brought the team together.

Regarding the thread title, for sure I have to watch some Houston games now. I am super curious if Presti is going to look bad here. If I am him I don't trade Harden without playing with Line-up changes and such first. But, he did get some value as Hardens replacement did well last night.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Bonn1997
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11/2/2012  10:00 PM
45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.
KnicksFE
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11/2/2012  11:32 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

Totally true, Harden is not only a great scorer but a very efficient / unselfish player as well and while Asik may not score, there is no question that he defends and rebound with the best of them.
I know is early, but I truly believe Asik will eventually be a bargain at 8 million, he may already be as good as my boy Chandler but making around 6 million less.

Syniko
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11/3/2012  6:38 AM
KnicksFE wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

Totally true, Harden is not only a great scorer but a very efficient / unselfish player as well and while Asik may not score, there is no question that he defends and rebound with the best of them.
I know is early, but I truly believe Asik will eventually be a bargain at 8 million, he may already be as good as my boy Chandler but making around 6 million less.

Part of his efficiency comes from Lin. These two players compliment each other well. They are going to be a force to be reckoned with as they progress further into the season.

Now all I can think of is Novak in Rockets. Lin/Novak are so pure together. By adding Novak to the Rockets, they officially become playoff and championship material. I'm not even kidding.

Novak is wasting away on the bench. He needs to be s starter.

smackeddog
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11/3/2012  8:23 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

Never anticipated his performance in the first two games at all. I'm curious to see whether he's just red hot at the moment and will fall back to earth, what do people think? I never really watched many OKC games so I can't really say whether he looked like he was being held back there. To early to call it, I think- Detroit and Atlanta aren't exactly great teams though- looking forward to seeing how he and Lin do against better competition, and against us in a few weeks!

earthmansurfer
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11/3/2012  8:54 AM
smackeddog - I think Lin compliments Harden EXTREMELY WELL. Notice when Lin is out of the game, Harden often has problems as they can key on him more. Lin is a great PG but with Harden he goes up a notch. Perfect situation for Lin to be in, and Harden as well. They do need a great F to compete though.

Syniko - They need a great F, not Novak. Novak is a great shooter but they need a F who can create their own shot. Novak would do well there anyway, but I'm just saying for them to go to that next level they need a star Forward.

Watch what happens to Hardens numbers if Lin misses any time (foul trouble, minor injury etc.) This will make Lin look even better. It is no coincidence how Lin made those around him better last year.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Bonn1997
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11/3/2012  9:04 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

Never anticipated his performance in the first two games at all. I'm curious to see whether he's just red hot at the moment and will fall back to earth, what do people think? I never really watched many OKC games so I can't really say whether he looked like he was being held back there. To early to call it, I think- Detroit and Atlanta aren't exactly great teams though- looking forward to seeing how he and Lin do against better competition, and against us in a few weeks!


He had outstanding efficiency in OKC and it looked clear that he would play great if given a bigger role. Obviously he won't continue to play this great but I do think he's going to be a top 5 to 10 player in the league.
KnicksFE
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11/3/2012  11:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2012  11:32 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:45 points on 19 shots! People will soon see Harden as a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

Never anticipated his performance in the first two games at all. I'm curious to see whether he's just red hot at the moment and will fall back to earth, what do people think? I never really watched many OKC games so I can't really say whether he looked like he was being held back there. To early to call it, I think- Detroit and Atlanta aren't exactly great teams though- looking forward to seeing how he and Lin do against better competition, and against us in a few weeks!


He had outstanding efficiency in OKC and it looked clear that he would play great if given a bigger role. Obviously he won't continue to play this great but I do think he's going to be a top 5 to 10 player in the league.

San Antonio has being my second team since the Tim Duncan era began, I was really impressed at the way they were able to win many championships and still manage their cap situation really well. So when Presti took over OKC, I wanted to see if can duplicate the same thing, so I have followed OKC model from the early stages of development and believe me, Harden is the real deal. By next year Harden will probably be the best shooting guard in the NBA, it takes time since he is so young, but trust me on this.

Rockets reach deal with Harden 5YRs/80 mil..WOW...

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