A) Toeknee Duglast

B)

Ahhh well, it's still early in the season, providing you're not Howard Medgal...

NYKMentality wrote:Of course it's two different players. Too different situations. Different teams. Coaches. Teammates. Fans. The whole 9. The only one to blame for this, is Jeremy Lin himself. No one physically forced Lin to sign a contract so high, in which the Knicks front office were forced to then have seconds thoughts. If he's ran out of the league or becomes a gigantic bust? Lin only has himself to blame for this. A true Knick at heart doesn't play 26 amazing games, makes a name for himself with rocking our iniform, the only team in which truly gave him a chance, the franchise that saved his basketball dream, a player who's now loved by the city, treated like a royal king, praised and repsected etc, etc and signs a contract so large, with the same exact team who cut him as practice trash. Then says he wishes he were still a Knick. He took his money, Most men and players would. It is what it is. Good for Lin, he's now a millionaire for life despite the fact that New York's marketing would've made him a potential billionaire (possibly).

If this isn't a good offensive system for Lin, it's his fault. He went to Harvard, right? He shoudl've used common sense, and remembered how he was treated with Houston his first go around. What type of offensive system they used/ran. He made a mentail mistake signing with the Rockets, of all teams. The truly great one's, the truly special one's, dominate the game of basketball regardless of head coach. From Jordan, to Shaq, Kobe, all the way back to Carmelo Anthony... The elite offensive players stand out. The cream always rises to the top. Not the ideal situation for Jeremy Lin? Was he then a product of a Mike D'Antoni coached/ran offense? He can't adjust on the fly? That sounds like a personal problem for Lin, not something die hard N.Y fans should feel sorry about. Not something Knick fans shouldn't mention in regards to his box score numbers and/or production on the basketball court.

Melo can be harped all over, and judged, and so can J.R Smith and Stoudemire, but yet.. Lin is too protected for that? Getting the Tebow treatment due to being a good person as if most players aren't? Is it because he's an underdog? Why do some fans of this franchise protect Lin from his critics? Melo's Nuggets franchise missed the playoffs during (I believe) 7-8 consecutive years without a playoff birth. Then the drafting of Melo happened. And that was that, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference power house teams too. Denver then went on to land 7-8 consecutive trips to the postseason with Melo leading that franchise (on his back). Lets see if Jeremy Lin can do the same for a Houston franchise. If he's a franchise player, he'll rise to the top. If not? He'll continue to be mocked and rightfully so.

2nd par - I think it is a great offensive system for Lin, but they are trying to create a star in Harden at the cost of Lin. Lin is also to blame in this, he needs to take charge. It's not like that team is going anywhere. And truly great ones dominating? Well, I like Melo (a lot these days) but he sure didn't dominate under D'Antoni.

3rd par - I see your point here but Lin turned this team around in an unbelievable way. Stat sure started to but the injuries and frequent stupid play didn't weigh well with the fans is my guess. All of JR's great play last year was forgotten with his poor playoff performance it seems. Again, not against the guys, just weighing in my opinion. Regarding Melo, yeah, a great player but 8 years and not much in the playoffs speaks for itself. But, I do think he is waking up and getting smarter as a player - but time will tell. Melo also had some pretty nice talent at times in Denver. Lin is 24 and an unkown, pretty bad team except for Harden and maybe Asik. Now that Lin is the number 2 or 3 guy on that team, and Harden is #1, #1 & #1 - I just don't see that team doing anything at all. Why pay Lin all that cash and then have Harden doing so much??? Clearly Lin is playing great, but they sure aren't helping the cause.

"Die Hard Knicks Fans" - You know, the answer is in the statement there. If you don't have an open and intelligent mind, you die hard. I prefer intelligent and questioning fans over inflexible followers. We are fans, not fanatics.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...

49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...

No, you just don't understand it. You think free throws are unimportant for some reason.

It's a clown stat...Hollinger is making up stuff and you guys are buying into it...Free throws are very important but in context...Shaq was an all time great..DHow can be..They can't hit the side of a barn if they were pissing on it...How would they do...A guy can take one ft and hit it and throw off all the numbers....Clown stat...

None of that justifies ignoring FTs when evaluating players' scoring.

Hollinger assess his own weighted values on FT and FG correct??..

Foul on missed 3 pointer: 3 FTs = 1 possession
Foul on missed 2 pointer: 2 FTs = 1 possession
Technical foul: 1 FT = 0 possessions (you get the FT without wasting the possession)
Foul on made FG: 1 FT = 0 possessions (you already scored on that possession - the FT is just bonus).

When you use these values and count how often they occur in games, the average FT will use up .44 possessions.

So that's how the TS% formula is derived (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_shooting_percentage)

holfresh wrote:

NUPE wrote:Lin has played awful ball. However, there is still ample time for him to improve this season. I think when it is all said and done, this year, the Knicks would have made the right decision. Felton will give us similar production or slightly better to what Lin gave under Woodson at a substantially cheaper cost.

Come on...With the defense, floor generalship and being able to run an offense...Felton is a lot better...Being able to pass isn't the only aspect of running an offense...It's also knowing how to, when to, and where to get the most production out of your top players..Knowing who to ride when they are hot and knowing where guys will be in the offense..Stuff that we still have to iron out...Don't let these rook basketball analyst tell u who knows how to run a team...

That is exactly my problem with Felton besides his awful FG% and why I am more comfortable when Kidd runs the point. Lin has 1oo% better court vision than Felton. He is a better passer period. He is in a major funk right now. Ask Hubie Brown and Clyde who they think is better. Can someone bring back the Dead Horse thread. This preseason thread is fugazi!

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NUPE wrote:Lin has played awful ball. However, there is still ample time for him to improve this season. I think when it is all said and done, this year, the Knicks would have made the right decision. Felton will give us similar production or slightly better to what Lin gave under Woodson at a substantially cheaper cost.

Come on...With the defense, floor generalship and being able to run an offense...Felton is a lot better...Being able to pass isn't the only aspect of running an offense...It's also knowing how to, when to, and where to get the most production out of your top players..Knowing who to ride when they are hot and knowing where guys will be in the offense..Stuff that we still have to iron out...Don't let these rook basketball analyst tell u who knows how to run a team...

That is exactly my problem with Felton besides his awful FG% and why I am more comfortable when Kidd runs the point. Lin has 1oo% better court vision than Felton. He is a better passer period. He is in a major funk right now. Ask Hubie Brown and Clyde who they think is better. Can someone bring back the Dead Horse thread. This preseason thread is fugazi!

Being a better passer doesn't mean u can run an offense...Evidence Lin!!!!..There is a reason Harden gets the ball when he passes half court...By the way Kidd ran the point once this year, in the last game when Felton went to the bench...Knicks are 5-0...Undefeated with blowouts...Woody didn't want Prig back in the game...Do you guys watch the game or just the score??

Anji wrote:LOL, where are you getting these facts that Lin has 100 % better court vision than Felton???

Does it come in a book with the I<3Lin tee shirt???

It comes from watching the games and making an opinion. Which is what claiming that "Lin has better court vision" means. You also watch games I am assuming and your opinion is that Felton is better in all aspects of the game. I don't agree and I respect that. But.. continuously mocking other posters because they differ from your point of view is not cool.

Facts are Raymond Felton has a higher Assist average in his career, and averaged 9 assists/game the last time he was with NY. Those are absolutes.

What he should've said is he "prefers" Lin's passing to Felton's.

Swishfm3 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Of course it's two different players. Too different situations. Different teams. Coaches. Teammates. Fans. The whole 9. The only one to blame for this, is Jeremy Lin himself. No one physically forced Lin to sign a contract so high, in which the Knicks front office were forced to then have seconds thoughts. If he's ran out of the league or becomes a gigantic bust? Lin only has himself to blame for this. A true Knick at heart doesn't play 26 amazing games, makes a name for himself with rocking our iniform, the only team in which truly gave him a chance, the franchise that saved his basketball dream, a player who's now loved by the city, treated like a royal king, praised and repsected etc, etc and signs a contract so large, with the same exact team who cut him as practice trash. Then says he wishes he were still a Knick. He took his money, Most men and players would. It is what it is. Good for Lin, he's now a millionaire for life despite the fact that New York's marketing would've made him a potential billionaire (possibly).

If this isn't a good offensive system for Lin, it's his fault. He went to Harvard, right? He shoudl've used common sense, and remembered how he was treated with Houston his first go around. What type of offensive system they used/ran. He made a mentail mistake signing with the Rockets, of all teams. The truly great one's, the truly special one's, dominate the game of basketball regardless of head coach. From Jordan, to Shaq, Kobe, all the way back to Carmelo Anthony... The elite offensive players stand out. The cream always rises to the top. Not the ideal situation for Jeremy Lin? Was he then a product of a Mike D'Antoni coached/ran offense? He can't adjust on the fly? That sounds like a personal problem for Lin, not something die hard N.Y fans should feel sorry about. Not something Knick fans shouldn't mention in regards to his box score numbers and/or production on the basketball court.

Melo can be harped all over, and judged, and so can J.R Smith and Stoudemire, but yet.. Lin is too protected for that? Getting the Tebow treatment due to being a good person as if most players aren't? Is it because he's an underdog? Why do some fans of this franchise protect Lin from his critics? Melo's Nuggets franchise missed the playoffs during (I believe) 7-8 consecutive years without a playoff birth. Then the drafting of Melo happened. And that was that, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference power house teams too. Denver then went on to land 7-8 consecutive trips to the postseason with Melo leading that franchise (on his back). Lets see if Jeremy Lin can do the same for a Houston franchise. If he's a franchise player, he'll rise to the top. If not? He'll continue to be mocked and rightfully so.

Great post

I never bought into this whole "Linsanity" but I never wished him ill will when he left and quite surprised at his performance thus far...I'm sure it will get better. This year, next yeat..after a coaching change but honestly.........who cares.

Like ChuckBuck said...Lets move on.

Some people and fans are stuck loving the "idea" of Linsanity. The Asian Christian boy from Harvard that could.

Honest truth, Jeremy Lin the player, he's just average or below average. No ways around it. Stats support this. Performances and the "eye test" support this. 26 game spike cannot remove who you are.

NBA is a bottom line league. "A proof is in the pudding league". Like many said and the originator Sheed said "Ball don't Lie"

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Let's put this thread to rest fellas...

Lin is who "real" Knicks fans thought he was. It's not the system, not the team, not the coach, not the surrounding players.

The one constant is the player. Knicks made the right decision. Move on now.

He is what he is.

So basically,

Let's put this to rest.

Just let me get the last word in though!

I tried, I don't think anyone will listen. The heart wants what the heart wants!

Lin looked guilty on that Knicks bench. You know why he looked guilty? Because he used the Knicks for his 26 games of production. He couldn't have cared less about his teammates being manhandled by Miami. He didn't even attempt to play a single minute during our Miami series, and you know why? Because he seen dollar signs were right around the corner. I could see it in his eyes (as he was sitting on that bench) that Jeremy Lin was fearful of being exposed as a potential turnover machine ala losing out on millions, upon million of dollars come the offseason. Trust me, Jeremy Lin knew exactly what he was doing. Sat out for that contract in which he currenlty has. Lin only put up 8 points and 3 assists while committing 8 turnovers against Miami during an 88-102 loss during the regular season. Lin sat out, at 75%-85% health, due to being fearful of being exposed by a very strong/athletic Miami Heat defense come postseason play.

ChuckBuck wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:You know whats a shame, is that Jeremy Lin never earned his contract. Lin only A.) Played 26 regular season games before B.) Getting hurt while C.) Sitting out the final 17 regular season games while D.) Sitting out at 75-85% health while the Miami Heat murdered the Knicks during postseason play.

Lin looked guilty on that Knicks bench. You know why he looked guilty? Because he used the Knicks for his 26 games of production. He couldn't have cared less about his teammates being manhandled by Miami. He didn't even attempt to play a single minute during our Miami series, and you know why? Because he seen dollar signs were right around the corner. I could see it in his eyes (as he was sitting on that bench) that Jeremy Lin was fearful of being exposed as a potential turnover machine ala losing out on millions, upon million of dollars come the offseason. Trust me, Jeremy Lin knew exactly what he was doing. Sat out for that contract in which he currenlty has. Lin only put up 8 points and 3 assists while committing 8 turnovers against Miami during an 88-102 loss during the regular season. Lin sat out, at 75%-85% health, due to being fearful of being exposed by a very strong/athletic Miami Heat defense come postseason play.

Lin put his Harvard education to good use. He protected his investment, himself.

Come on Chuck thats a little steep. Lin played well for us and he got a good contact good for him.