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A Game of Thrones - HBO - Best Novels Ever
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BigDaddyG
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6/1/2014  11:30 PM
VDesai wrote:I think it was one of the very best episodes of the series to date. The last scene was phenomenal. I also thought Sansa's scenes w/ Baelish were fantastic and a good re-imagining of the books. Kudos to Pedro Pascal/Inigo Montoya for doing a great job of bringing one of the best characters from the books to life on screen.

I thought the Sansa/Baelish scene was one of the few instances where the show made more sense than the books.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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NardDogNation
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6/2/2014  12:58 AM
Yeah, it was a brilliant episode. They continue to surprise me with these sinister twists every episode/season. I had thought that Obrean had the Mountain beat but should've known better. Men, whose motives are driven by pure, unbridled emotion, seldom are successful or live very long in this world. He was clearly a dead man the minute he expressed his interest in seeking revenge against the Lanister's instead of concocting some kind of clever, underhanded plan. I'm going to miss Obrean, whose character had grown on me. If they kill Tyrion, I'd have no one left to root for.
yellowboy90
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6/2/2014  8:01 AM
The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

NardDogNation
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6/2/2014  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2014  11:02 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

yellowboy90
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6/2/2014  5:37 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

NardDogNation
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6/2/2014  6:00 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

yellowboy90
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6/2/2014  9:36 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

No, I've read them all but I just didn't want to say something and spoil the show or your future readings

NardDogNation
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6/2/2014  10:03 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

No, I've read them all but I just didn't want to say something and spoil the show or your future readings

For me, the emphasis is on the journey and not the destination. Truth be told, I'd love to know what to expect. Does the Hound die from an infection from the bite? I rewatched the episode and it seemed to be nagging him in this episode. The only reason I can think for stressing this is because it will snowball. With him showing a softer side, I suspect that this might be his swan song.

yellowboy90
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6/3/2014  8:08 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

No, I've read them all but I just didn't want to say something and spoil the show or your future readings

For me, the emphasis is on the journey and not the destination. Truth be told, I'd love to know what to expect. Does the Hound die from an infection from the bite? I rewatched the episode and it seemed to be nagging him in this episode. The only reason I can think for stressing this is because it will snowball. With him showing a softer side, I suspect that this might be his swan song.

In the books the Hound asks Arya for Mercy(quick death) but she does not give it to him and leaves him to die. She then goes to Braavos.In the show it seems as the Hound and Arya bond is closer but I am not sure what will happen in the tv series. I find it odd that they would mention how Baelish had braavoshi blood in him. Could he send her to Braavos? I doubt it and I doubt she would trust him.

also, later in the book it is mentioned how the Hound and his horse was found and one of the priests tried to heel him but could not. The Hounds armor however is being used by bandits and people still think he is alive.

BigDaddyG
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6/3/2014  12:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  9:11 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

No, I've read them all but I just didn't want to say something and spoil the show or your future readings

For me, the emphasis is on the journey and not the destination. Truth be told, I'd love to know what to expect. Does the Hound die from an infection from the bite? I rewatched the episode and it seemed to be nagging him in this episode. The only reason I can think for stressing this is because it will snowball. With him showing a softer side, I suspect that this might be his swan song.

In the books the Hound asks Arya for Mercy(quick death) but she does not give it to him and leaves him to die. She then goes to Braavos.In the show it seems as the Hound and Arya bond is closer but I am not sure what will happen in the tv series. I find it odd that they would mention how Baelish had braavoshi blood in him. Could he send her to Braavos? I doubt it and I doubt she would trust him.

also, later in the book it is mentioned how the Hound and his horse was found and one of the priests tried to heel him but could not. The Hounds armor however is being used by bandits and people still think he is alive.


I think the mention of Baelish's Bravosi grandfather was meant to emphasize that his family did come fro meager beginnings and that his rise to power is almost unprecedented. Also, the Vale Lords see him as an outsider and do not trust him. Also, be careful about putting book spoilers in the show thread lol I know the show made it a point to direct our attention to the Hound's wound, but still.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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6/3/2014  11:03 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The show is jumping around the books for real. My favorite part of the show was arya laughing. I think the Sansa seen was great but I'm not sure where they are taking me. Her plot line and Little finger plot line has gone bye bye from the books. Back to Arya: Do the Hound and Arya leave the Vale? Wouldn't the guard report that Arya was there?

Another thing is Tormmond. He was supposed to be on the other side of the wall and Val was suppose to get him. What will go on there. Also, I get the feeling the will keep ygritte and use her like Val. I don't know why I think that because characters die in this series the same but that's just where my head is at right now.

Side note: Missandei is the finest thing on TV.

Doubtful. Chances are that he'll negotiate with other relatives that reside in Vale to get his ransom. I suspect that he'll encounter Balish and Sansa, and actually stay in Vale as a bodyguard of some sort. He really has no choice with a bounty on his head. Besides that, Balish could use a guy like the Hound to train Robin for whatever plan he's got in store.

Side note to your side note: damn straight she's fine. Her beauty really stuck out in this episode. Her and Ellira Sand. I hope they keep these two characters in the storyline as long as possible.

Have you read the books?

I'm reading the first but haven't had the time to get too deep into it. All I'm doing is speculating. Thought you were in the same boat.

No, I've read them all but I just didn't want to say something and spoil the show or your future readings

For me, the emphasis is on the journey and not the destination. Truth be told, I'd love to know what to expect. Does the Hound die from an infection from the bite? I rewatched the episode and it seemed to be nagging him in this episode. The only reason I can think for stressing this is because it will snowball. With him showing a softer side, I suspect that this might be his swan song.

In the books the Hound asks Arya for Mercy(quick death) but she does not give it to him and leaves him to die. She then goes to Braavos.In the show it seems as the Hound and Arya bond is closer but I am not sure what will happen in the tv series. I find it odd that they would mention how Baelish had braavoshi blood in him. Could he send her to Braavos? I doubt it and I doubt she would trust him.

also, later in the book it is mentioned how the Hound and his horse was found and one of the priests tried to heel him but could not. The Hounds armor however is being used by bandits and people still think he is alive.

Thanks for the heads up. As for Ramsay Snow/Bolton, does he inevitably betray his father? With him officially becoming the heir to the Dredfort, I wouldn't be surprised if he kills Roose. Afterall, it wasn't like Roose treated him particularly well

VDesai
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6/4/2014  12:00 AM
We should keep the spoilers in the other thread, but I'd say Roose is in some ways more menacing than Ramsay. Not as prone to whimsy, not as polarizing, and easily smarter, more calculating and just as ice cold. In a certain way, Ramsay is just Roose's pawn.
yellowboy90
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6/4/2014  2:12 AM
VDesai wrote:We should keep the spoilers in the other thread, but I'd say Roose is in some ways more menacing than Ramsay. Not as prone to whimsy, not as polarizing, and easily smarter, more calculating and just as ice cold. In a certain way, Ramsay is just Roose's pawn.

Roose is older and wiser. He also grew up as a highborn from a house so he knows how to play the game a little. I don't think the show does Roose's character any justice.

BigDaddyG
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6/4/2014  9:18 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
VDesai wrote:We should keep the spoilers in the other thread, but I'd say Roose is in some ways more menacing than Ramsay. Not as prone to whimsy, not as polarizing, and easily smarter, more calculating and just as ice cold. In a certain way, Ramsay is just Roose's pawn.

Roose is older and wiser. He also grew up as a highborn from a house so he knows how to play the game a little. I don't think the show does Roose's character any justice.


I think the show should have done a better job of acknowledging the simmering feud between house Stark and Bolton's. I think the writers also did Roose's character a disservice by not giving him any scenes to replace the ones he lost from the book in Harrenhal. I likrd the Arya/Tywin scenes because they fleshed out Tywin's character. But I feel that they the change in the show came at the expense of Goose, who's a cool character in his own right.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
VDesai
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6/4/2014  4:19 PM
I think a lot of what we learn about Roose is also from Catelyn's thoughts/impressions of him her POV chapters. They have done a better job with Roose as of late, but in the first couple of seasons we barely saw him and I think for non-book viewers, that may have made his motivations in the red wedding less easy to understand.
BigDaddyG
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6/5/2014  10:04 AM
VDesai wrote:I think a lot of what we learn about Roose is also from Catelyn's thoughts/impressions of him her POV chapters. They have done a better job with Roose as of late, but in the first couple of seasons we barely saw him and I think for non-book viewers, that may have made his motivations in the red wedding less easy to understand.

I have another nitpick after rewatching the last episode. I think Sansa's reveal during Littlefinger's trial made more sense then book's version. The knights and lords of the Vale have always been fond of the Starks, dating back to the time when Ned was fostered there by Jon Arryn. The only thing that stopped then from siding with Rob during the war was Lysa's insistence that they stand pat.
But I'm a littled annoyed by how unprepared Littlefinger seemed to be. The show has done a good job of showing how astute and ruthless Little finger is. Do you think a guy like that would allow Sansa to testify without preparation?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
VDesai
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6/5/2014  10:18 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:I think a lot of what we learn about Roose is also from Catelyn's thoughts/impressions of him her POV chapters. They have done a better job with Roose as of late, but in the first couple of seasons we barely saw him and I think for non-book viewers, that may have made his motivations in the red wedding less easy to understand.

I have another nitpick after rewatching the last episode. I think Sansa's reveal during Littlefinger's trial made more sense then book's version. The knights and lords of the Vale have always been fond of the Starks, dating back to the time when Ned was fostered there by Jon Arryn. The only thing that stopped then from siding with Rob during the war was Lysa's insistence that they stand pat.
But I'm a littled annoyed by how unprepared Littlefinger seemed to be. The show has done a good job of showing how astute and ruthless Little finger is. Do you think a guy like that would allow Sansa to testify without preparation?

I had a slightly different interpretation on first watch- I saw it as Littlefinger testing Sansa's loyalty instead of being unprepared. Perhaps he rightly assumed she would step up and lie in his defense. It was a little

BigDaddyG
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6/5/2014  10:33 AM
VDesai wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:I think a lot of what we learn about Roose is also from Catelyn's thoughts/impressions of him her POV chapters. They have done a better job with Roose as of late, but in the first couple of seasons we barely saw him and I think for non-book viewers, that may have made his motivations in the red wedding less easy to understand.

I have another nitpick after rewatching the last episode. I think Sansa's reveal during Littlefinger's trial made more sense then book's version. The knights and lords of the Vale have always been fond of the Starks, dating back to the time when Ned was fostered there by Jon Arryn. The only thing that stopped then from siding with Rob during the war was Lysa's insistence that they stand pat.
But I'm a littled annoyed by how unprepared Littlefinger seemed to be. The show has done a good job of showing how astute and ruthless Little finger is. Do you think a guy like that would allow Sansa to testify without preparation?

I had a slightly different interpretation on first watch- I saw it as Littlefinger testing Sansa's loyalty instead of being unprepared. Perhaps he rightly assumed she would step up and lie in his defense. It was a little


That's what I assumed on my first viewing too. But he clearly did not want Sansa to testify and I'm sure that he wouldn't allow her to reveal her identity w/o talking about it first.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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6/5/2014  5:34 PM
VDesai wrote:We should keep the spoilers in the other thread, but I'd say Roose is in some ways more menacing than Ramsay. Not as prone to whimsy, not as polarizing, and easily smarter, more calculating and just as ice cold. In a certain way, Ramsay is just Roose's pawn.

Yeah, you're right dude. This was my bad. This was the active thread for GOT at the time I was posting and I suppose that I got a little carried away/absent-minded.


As for Roose, I was under the same impression but that doesn't mean that Roose doesn't have his blind spots. Remember, he had no incentive for claiming Ramsay as his own, which is why I suspect that it took so long for him to do it. The question is, why would he do that now, with Ramsay an adult and more a threat now than ever? On the flip side, what is Ramsay's motivation for keeping his father alive? If he kills him now, he'll inherit the entire North. It's not like he is emotionally attached/dependent on his father and he clearly doesn't need his father's tutelage; having proven to be an excellent strategist. It's purely speculation on my part, I haven't read the books but I wouldn't be surprise if Baby Bolton makes his move to start running things.

yellowboy90
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6/5/2014  6:27 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
VDesai wrote:We should keep the spoilers in the other thread, but I'd say Roose is in some ways more menacing than Ramsay. Not as prone to whimsy, not as polarizing, and easily smarter, more calculating and just as ice cold. In a certain way, Ramsay is just Roose's pawn.

Yeah, you're right dude. This was my bad. This was the active thread for GOT at the time I was posting and I suppose that I got a little carried away/absent-minded.


As for Roose, I was under the same impression but that doesn't mean that Roose doesn't have his blind spots. Remember, he had no incentive for claiming Ramsay as his own, which is why I suspect that it took so long for him to do it. The question is, why would he do that now, with Ramsay an adult and more a threat now than ever? On the flip side, what is Ramsay's motivation for keeping his father alive? If he kills him now, he'll inherit the entire North. It's not like he is emotionally attached/dependent on his father and he clearly doesn't need his father's tutelage; having proven to be an excellent strategist. It's purely speculation on my part, I haven't read the books but I wouldn't be surprise if Baby Bolton makes his move to start running things.

Yeah, that could be a direction of the show maybe but Roose in the books is nothing the play with. He is every bit as twisted as Ramsey except he sees the bigger picture and is more calculating.

Also, Ramsey in the book is emotionally attached because he wants his fathers approval. Even in the show you see how he shrinks next to his father.

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