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djsunyc
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10/16/2007  10:14 AM
is this thread still stickied? yikes...
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VDesai
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10/16/2007  12:43 PM
I'm not too concerned with either of the picks he threw last night. The first one was more problematic. It was a bit of a force, but its that big of a deal considering the timing and positioning on the field (though you obviously never want to turn it over). Still these picks before halves have become a tendency now. Eli is taking it upon himself to make too much happen in the short time period this year and he needs to take a step back and not force it if it isn't there. It's a little bit of a strange development because he had been so good in the 2 minute situation (though some of that was from the "sling it" mentaility).

The second was a 1 on 1 situation where our WR didn't make a play and where he didn't make the best throw possible, but it was a shot worth taking. Toomer's not a defender but he needs to make that tackle after the play.

If you're gonna throw the ball deep and make as many plays in the passing game as you did last night, then picks are probably gonna be part of the equation at some point.

Over the course of the year you see Peyton Manning make similar interceptions trying to make something happen. The good with Eli far outweighed the bad yesterday. He had sick accuracy throught the first half, making plays all over the place.
VDesai
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10/16/2007  1:26 PM
Just as a comp- and I know that no 2 players are the same, but Eli's playing style is still very similar to his brother's. They share a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses. Eli's accuracy is obviously is not as consistently good as Peyton's was at this point, but consider other factors like supporting cast, offensive system and the fact that Peyton has played all his home games in a dome etc.

Anyway, back on the INT point, regarding Peyton, he went from averaging 20 picks a year (And a slightly less than 1.4:1 TD:INT ratio) in his first 5 years to only 10 a year ( and a 3.4 to 1 TD:INT ratio) his last 4 years. People don't necessarily talk about how the light flipped on with him as much, but its a pretty stark difference (though he was already a good QB to start). Sometimes it just takes a little time for the guy to recognize when to try and make a play and when to recognize the D and not force it.

Eli may never be as good as Peyton- but he doesn't necessarily have to be. The good thing is he's making strides and there is still so much potential upside left to realize here.

[Edited by - VDesai on 10-16-2007 1:27 PM]
TMS
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10/16/2007  4:29 PM
aren't Eli's #'s comparatively better than Payton's were at this stage in their careers?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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10/16/2007  4:32 PM
Posted by blueNorange:

Why wasn't Ross starting since week 1??

Good to have a CB who's ... well ... good!

maybe he broke 1 of Coughlin's ridiculous team rules... like maybe he snapped his gum during a team meeting or something & got himself benched.

& word, i'm liking that kid alot... he makes plays & he's a big physical corner, something we haven't had since Sehorn was actually good... another bonus is it keeps RW McQuarters off the field where he belongs... at least he's good at fair catching the ball on punts, so it's not a total loss i guess.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
blueNorange
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10/16/2007  4:36 PM
I don't think Strahan will be back next year ... it's gonna be the Justin Tuck show the next 10 years
some Knick fans accept mediocrity as excellence .... I don't!
SupremeCommander
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10/17/2007  2:51 AM
Posted by TMS:

aren't Eli's #'s comparatively better than Payton's were at this stage in their careers?

Absolutely not. Look at the yards, TD:INT and the QB ratings for the two for the same time frame... not close.
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TMS
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10/17/2007  10:07 AM
i stand corrected.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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10/18/2007  12:28 PM
The TD:INT ratios are not that far off- that was the point I was making in my post. Peyton threw his share of picks his first 5-6 years in the league.
SupremeCommander
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10/18/2007  7:17 PM
Posted by VDesai:

The TD:INT ratios are not that far off- that was the point I was making in my post. Peyton threw his share of picks his first 5-6 years in the league.

Look at Peyton's second season. His numbers are awesome and that team, I believe, went 13-3. To claim Eli belongs in that company is not accurate. He is a very good QB though and he's led this team to the playoffs. I didn't realize until last week how great Eli is in play-action situations. He is not an elite QB though. Maybe he will, but not yet or as quickly as Peyton.

I don't think he can win a team a Super Bowl without a great offensive player (like Burress seems to be becoming).
Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
4949
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10/18/2007  10:40 PM
I'll never trust this' team again.
VDesai
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10/20/2007  5:30 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by VDesai:

The TD:INT ratios are not that far off- that was the point I was making in my post. Peyton threw his share of picks his first 5-6 years in the league.

Look at Peyton's second season. His numbers are awesome and that team, I believe, went 13-3. To claim Eli belongs in that company is not accurate. He is a very good QB though and he's led this team to the playoffs. I didn't realize until last week how great Eli is in play-action situations. He is not an elite QB though. Maybe he will, but not yet or as quickly as Peyton.

I don't think he can win a team a Super Bowl without a great offensive player (like Burress seems to be becoming).


You can go back and read my posts, but no where did I make the claim that Eli was in Peyton's company. Someone was making a point that Eli threw too many INT's. I was just comparing the progression- Peyton struggled with INT's in his first few years and then quickly picked things up. Not out of the question for Eli to do the same.
blueNorange
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10/21/2007  12:05 PM
Steve Smith is playing today, woot woot!!
some Knick fans accept mediocrity as excellence .... I don't!
eViL
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10/21/2007  6:54 PM
Another dominant performance against a team they were supposed to beat. Let's go GIANTS!!!
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
VDesai
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10/21/2007  9:12 PM
Giants pass rush is freakish. So many big, fast guys coming at you. Justin Tuck might be the most disruptive defensive player in the league so far this year.
SupremeCommander
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10/22/2007  1:38 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by VDesai:

The TD:INT ratios are not that far off- that was the point I was making in my post. Peyton threw his share of picks his first 5-6 years in the league.

Look at Peyton's second season. His numbers are awesome and that team, I believe, went 13-3. To claim Eli belongs in that company is not accurate. He is a very good QB though and he's led this team to the playoffs. I didn't realize until last week how great Eli is in play-action situations. He is not an elite QB though. Maybe he will, but not yet or as quickly as Peyton.

I don't think he can win a team a Super Bowl without a great offensive player (like Burress seems to be becoming).


You can go back and read my posts, but no where did I make the claim that Eli was in Peyton's company. Someone was making a point that Eli threw too many INT's. I was just comparing the progression- Peyton struggled with INT's in his first few years and then quickly picked things up. Not out of the question for Eli to do the same.

I never said I thought that you thought something, nor did I try to imply that. I was just giving my thoughts on Eli.
Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
TMS
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10/22/2007  2:54 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Giants pass rush is freakish. So many big, fast guys coming at you. Justin Tuck might be the most disruptive defensive player in the league so far this year.

Osi bro... he's the best defensive player in football right now... Tuck's going to be great someday & so is Kiwa... Strahan even showing a little gas left in that tank... once Spagnuolo got all 4 of those guys running AT the QB instead of away from him, this defense started to dominate.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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10/22/2007  8:54 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:

Giants pass rush is freakish. So many big, fast guys coming at you. Justin Tuck might be the most disruptive defensive player in the league so far this year.

Osi bro... he's the best defensive player in football right now... Tuck's going to be great someday & so is Kiwa... Strahan even showing a little gas left in that tank... once Spagnuolo got all 4 of those guys running AT the QB instead of away from him, this defense started to dominate.


You know Osi has only had a sack in 3 of the games. Tuck has been the guy there every game. Not to say Osi isn't great, but Tuck is not only 2nd in the league in sacks (only 1 less than Osi( but he's also top 5 in run stuffs (tackles behind the line of scrimmage 6 vs. Osi's 2). Put those two together and Tuck leads the league in negative yardage tackles by a significant margin. This kid is already right there.






[Edited by - vdesai on 10-22-2007 09:32 AM]

[Edited by - vdesai on 10-22-2007 09:32 AM]
VDesai
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10/22/2007  9:11 AM
I tell you what though...you watch Osi make that play yesterday- hit, forced fumble, recovery and return all in a seemless motion. I don't know many players in the league that can do that. Maybe only Tuck and Kiwi! Man, consider all the physical freaks the Giants have in the 6'5 260 pound range that are probably running around 4.5-4.6 range in the 40 at that size:

Osi
Tuck
Kiwi
Brandon Jacobs
Jeremy Shockey
Strahan (though maybe he's not that fast anymore).

They've done some pretty sick stuff in the draft the last few years. Coach Spagnuolo has finally figured out a way to deploy them.

And man you watch Brandon Jacobs easily take it to the outside and is he any slower than Barber? He was running to the outside picking up 7,8 yards a time effortlessly the last couple weeks.
newyorknewyork
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10/22/2007  1:20 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:

Giants pass rush is freakish. So many big, fast guys coming at you. Justin Tuck might be the most disruptive defensive player in the league so far this year.

Osi bro... he's the best defensive player in football right now... Tuck's going to be great someday & so is Kiwa... Strahan even showing a little gas left in that tank... once Spagnuolo got all 4 of those guys running AT the QB instead of away from him, this defense started to dominate.


You know Osi has only had a sack in 3 of the games. Tuck has been the guy there every game. Not to say Osi isn't great, but Tuck is not only 2nd in the league in sacks (only 1 less than Osi( but he's also top 5 in run stuffs (tackles behind the line of scrimmage 6 vs. Osi's 2). Put those two together and Tuck leads the league in negative yardage tackles by a significant margin. This kid is already right there.






[Edited by - vdesai on 10-22-2007 09:32 AM]

[Edited by - vdesai on 10-22-2007 09:32 AM]


Wow!! Great info
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